Air India plane crash

MikeD said:
Was it 1 second apart, or .01 seconds apart? If it’s the latter, that’s some extremely fast switchology there.
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The values recorded by the EAFR update for this indication once per second (technically, once every 960 milliseconds).
 
inigo88 said:
Good catch, thanks!
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Though the positions of various items are documented as found, as part of the investigation; there is possibility that wreckage disturbance in the course of rescue work/cockpit access or body removal, can result in switches/levers/etc being moved. And either this not being noticed in the course of the work, or not being reported afterwards if it was noticed. That’s assuming that only fire/rescue had access to the cockpit post-crash. Who knows at this point and in areas like this where there is literally no crash site security of any kind.
 
MikeD said:
literally no crash site security of any kind.
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As a firedude, what kind of training or guidance have you received about when a large carbon fiber & polymer structure has crashed and is on fire?
 
Minuteman said:
As a firedude, what kind of training or guidance have you received about when a large carbon fiber & polymer structure has crashed and is on fire?
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Better be upwind of it, even with SCBA on. While the actual firefighting portion is relatively the same as an aluminium aircraft in terms of toxic gases and such that you need to avoid, broken or burning composite materials release an untold number of carbon microfibers that can’t be seen, and which breathing of them can cause all kinds of respiratory problems, even some distance from the wreckage itself depending on winds, smoke plume, etc. This forces firefighters to be on theIr SCBA masks or some form of microfiber filter mask for much longer than just the firefighting portion of the work, but for rescue and salvage also, which not only gets extremely fatiguing, but is also inefficient in trying to do expedient rescue or search work, and results in materials such as SCBA bottles being used up much faster than normal. Which can be a problem if there isn’t an adequate supply or refill ability for these. That carbon fiber stuff is great structurally as an aircraft or car part, but it’s got some nasty drawbacks when broken/shredded/burning. Breathing in the particles has some serious ramifications to the lungs, both short and even long term.
 
I was wondering what was taking so long to get some kind of statement on what they think happened. It makes sense that they delayed putting out this report knowing the liability their airline and maybe even government will face this being a deliberate act.
I don’t know that for sure, but it wouldn’t be the first time a government try’s to protect themselves or the country’s airline.
 
Cutting a carbon fiber handlebar or seat post is done with foaming soap covering the cut so no one inhales the dust. It's scary to think about an entire airplane crash and the carbon fiber hazards.
 
rockman2343@aol.com said:
I was wondering what was taking so long to get some kind of statement on what they think happened. It makes sense that they delayed putting out this report knowing the liability their airline and maybe even government will face this being a deliberate act.
I don’t know that for sure, but it wouldn’t be the first time a government try’s to protect themselves or the country’s airline.
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Air Egypt 990. I referenced the Wiki page earlier.
 
rockman2343@aol.com said:
I was wondering what was taking so long to get some kind of statement on what they think happened. It makes sense that they delayed putting out this report knowing the liability their airline and maybe even government will face this being a deliberate act.
I don’t know that for sure, but it wouldn’t be the first time a government try’s to protect themselves or the country’s airline.
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IMO, not from what I’ve seen from AAIB reports of the past. They did a great job with the Air India Express 737 crashes at Mangalore and Calicut. Both were pilot errors and the final reports were very thorough.
 
BEEF SUPREME said:
Air Egypt 990. I referenced the Wiki page earlier.
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Egypt officially transferred investigation to the NTSB. The NTSB got it correct, it was suicide due to the FO actions. Egyptians love da Nile, and will always deny to preserve their country, their image, their own self-respect.

You can’t trust anything aviation coming from Egyptians. The Paris-Cairo A320 was another example. Blamed a bomb and moved on, despite zero evidence on human remains or aircraft recovered parts. It transfers the blame to French airport security. Reality was much more complex, with numerous cautions and warnings going off in the flight deck for smoke.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Egypt officially transferred investigation to the NTSB. The NTSB got it correct, it was suicide due to the FO actions. Egyptians love da Nile, and will always deny to preserve their country, their image, their own self-respect.

You can’t trust anything aviation coming from Egyptians. The Paris-Cairo A320 was another example. Blamed a bomb and moved on, despite zero evidence on human remains or aircraft recovered parts. It transfers the blame to French airport security. Reality was much more complex, with numerous cautions and warnings going off in the flight deck for smoke.
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NTSB moved to transfer the investigation to the FBI. The Egyptians refused. The NTSB knew the FO crashed the aircraft intentionally. They didn't know why. I wouldn't be surprised if this happens with this crash as well.

Frankly I'm just happy this isn't a Boeing issue. For numerous reasons.
 
BEEF SUPREME said:
NTSB moved to transfer the investigation to the FBI. The Egyptians refused. The NTSB knew the FO crashed the aircraft intentionally. They didn't know why. I wouldn't be surprised if this happens with this crash as well.

Frankly I'm just happy this isn't a Boeing issue. For numerous reasons.
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The Dreamliner has been flying fine for a decade+ now. It was highly doubtful it would be a “Boeing issue.”
 
Minuteman said:
As a firedude, what kind of training or guidance have you received about when a large carbon fiber & polymer structure has crashed and is on fire?
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MikeD said:
Better be upwind of it, even with SCBA on. While the actual firefighting portion is relatively the same as an aluminium aircraft in terms of toxic gases and such that you need to avoid, broken or burning composite materials release an untold number of carbon microfibers that can’t be seen, and which breathing of them can cause all kinds of respiratory problems, even some distance from the wreckage itself depending on winds, smoke plume, etc. This forces firefighters to be on theIr SCBA masks or some form of microfiber filter mask for much longer than just the firefighting portion of the work, but for rescue and salvage also, which not only gets extremely fatiguing, but is also inefficient in trying to do expedient rescue or search work, and results in materials such as SCBA bottles being used up much faster than normal. Which can be a problem if there isn’t an adequate supply or refill ability for these. That carbon fiber stuff is great structurally as an aircraft or car part, but it’s got some nasty drawbacks when broken/shredded/burning. Breathing in the particles has some serious ramifications to the lungs, both short and even long term.
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Um Sir, this is India. You’re getting a rickety rickshaw with a 30 gallon water tank, a leaky water hose, and a used N95 mask. ;)
 
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