Air France 296 Question

[Orange Anchor]

Thanks. So in an upset situation (think inside of a thunderstorm), the computers kick into abnormal alternate law (we hope), giving the pilots the control authority necessary to get the airplane level, and they stay there for the remainder of the flight. :beer:

Yes if by that you mean you go 'turtle' and wind up on your back. You can get it back into controlled flight but 'laws' change. You can still fly it and maneuver for the landing.

• After recovery from the unusual attitude, the following laws are active for the remainder of the flight:
  • Pitch: Alternate law without protections and with autotrim.
  • Roll: Direct law
  • Yaw: Alternate law
• There is no reversion to Direct law when the landing gear is extended.

What a LOT of people don't realize is the 'bus can be flown with all computers down. Lose (loose if you choose) it all and the 'bus can still be flown. Not easy but it can be done. The late Nick Warner demonstrated it on a flt at Toulouse and I've heard some sim instructors who have the time will demonstrate it. Actually it is a pretty good system, works well (at least for the 2yrs+) I was on it.

Where I did experience some problems was when the 'bus was waking up. Sometimes when you powered up the 'bus reverted to 'crazy Mary' and you got all kinds of problems. There were checklists and do this/do that and sometimes it was necessary just to let 'her' (sorry if that is sexist) go back to sleep. ALL power OFF including batt power. Wait. Power on and it was like nothing had happened. All failures GONE. But as said, otherwise I had a good time driving around in the 'bus.

 

[jwp_145]

Yes if by that you mean you go 'turtle' and wind up on your back. You can get it back into controlled flight but 'laws' change. You can still fly it and maneuver for the landing.
What a LOT of people don't realize is the 'bus can be flown with all computers down. Lose (loose if you choose) it all and the 'bus can still be flown. Not easy but it can be done. The late Nick Warner demonstrated it on a flt at Toulouse and I've heard some sim instructors who have the time will demonstrate it. Actually it is a pretty good system, works well (at least for the 2yrs+) I was on it.

Where I did experience some problems was when the 'bus was waking up. Sometimes when you powered up the 'bus reverted to 'crazy Mary' and you got all kinds of problems. There were checklists and do this/do that and sometimes it was necessary just to let 'her' (sorry if that is sexist) go back to sleep. ALL power OFF including batt power. Wait. Power on and it was like nothing had happened. All failures GONE. But as said, otherwise I had a good time driving around in the 'bus.

How could they get something like that certified?... is it because the probability of that affecting something is really low?

 

[dasleben]

How could they get something like that certified?... is it because the probability of that affecting something is really low?

That's not just an Airbus thing...Embraers also commonly do that. Don't like what you see after power up? Turn it off, wait 2 minutes, turn it back on. All good.

 

[seagull]

That's not just an Airbus thing...Embraers also commonly do that. Don't like what you see after power up? Turn it off, wait 2 minutes, turn it back on. All good.

I think that's true of all the modern aircraft. So many BITE and similar that things need to power up in an orderly fashion for it all to work right.

 

[Roger, Roger]

How could they get something like that certified?... is it because the probability of that affecting something is really low?

Why would it be a problem for certification if it only happens on startup?

 

[Orange Anchor]

How could they get something like that certified?... is it because the probability of that affecting something is really low?

It did not happen often and to me, it seemed linear. I was, however, just a line-swine with an interest in the FBW so I read and talked to people about it.

But as the airplane 'woke-up' if something was missed, it seemed to cascade and once the cascade started, the best solution was to start the process again from the start.

As said, I enjoyed flying the 'bus. Was it different? In some ways yes. Was the MD-80 different from the 727 and 737? Yes? So what was the answer? The same it has always been. Play to the strengths. RESPECT the weaknesses and don't try to force the paradigms of one company into another cockpit. All have strong points. All have flaws (if I can use that term).

 

[Autothrust Blue]

That's not just an Airbus thing...Embraers also commonly do that. Don't like what you see after power up? Turn it off, wait 2 minutes, turn it back on. All good.

*PING* click
*PING* click
*PING* click
and so forth...

RESPECT the weaknesses and don't try to force the paradigms of one company into another cockpit. All have strong points. All have flaws (if I can use that term).

:clap:

That said, it'd be really nice if they fixed the RTLU. (or vertical fin. or both.)

 

[Orange Anchor]

That said, it'd be really nice if they fixed the RTLU. (or vertical fin. or both.)

The issue with the vertical fin goes beyond the AA A300 and the NTSB. Once again, it goes back to training and understanding what one is doing.

I used to demonstrate in the KC-135 that you could be in 45deg of bank and within 5deg of desired heading, feed in rudder quickly and you could stop on that desired heading. I never thought of the forces I was creating on the vertical fin. And later, when we were having rudder hard-overs on the 737, we *taught* to be extremely forceful using the rudders. That may have been one of those damned if you do, damned if you don't but for the hard-over the first thing was to unload the airplane, not something one wants to do when near the dirt.

But it was learned that many (including me) did not really understand Va. Yes, you are supposed to be able to go full throw without damage but nowhere does it say you can do rapid reversals. This was brought out in a presentation at the Bombardier SSD last year when the Dir of the Test Pilot school explained why some of the things being taught are not only not good, they are BAD. He really took off on the emphasis of losing no altitude on stall recoveries.