Air Force One aborts a landing....executes a missed approach

So, completely naïve question here. How long does it really take to get a 747 ready to roll? If it was plugged into shore power, all systems up, would you not be able to fire up the APU, get the jets spinning, and GTFO in not much more time than it takes now?

They need to put starter cartridges on the E-4. Would be cool to see all four going off simultaneously. Although not nearly as impressive as the Buff doing an alert start on all 8 after being modified under operation quick start.
 
So, completely naïve question here. How long does it really take to get a 747 ready to roll? If it was plugged into shore power, all systems up, would you not be able to fire up the APU, get the jets spinning, and GTFO in not much more time than it takes now?

That's basically what they do... They have maintenance personnel on the aircraft, running vital communication systems and capable of starting engines, all while the aircrew respond to the aircraft. Ideally, they would have the aircraft started and turn over to the aircrew when they arrived.

Be honest with you though... If our E-6 crews were to race them, we would be able to respond from an alert facility, start a cold jet, and be airborne before their crew had responded... Just different ways of tackling similar problems.
 
Can you elaborate?

Well, I do know that they've had massive issues with their new manufacturing process in general... as it's completely dissimilar to the process they'd used previously for any new airplane. The emphasis has been on selling jobs, and little else. There have been employees who have gone to the union as well as the FAA with concerns that jobs are being bought off as completed, when they're anything but. There's some actual concern regarding safety.

Everything about this airplane has been a massive rush to get it done and reach manufacturing benchmarks, regardless of the actual progress made. One good example is the initial roll-out of the airplane a few years ago. That airplane, when it was rolled out... had no floors. No wiring. The doors were painted plastic plugs held in place by temporary wood framing. It's been some really stupid blunders, as well. Things as simple as the sequence of events. They had one of the fuselage tubes in a sling to get it off the ground, and were in a rush to install the floor of the airplane. Well, composite did what it does, and flexed as they had the tube suspended. The floor pieces were then the wrong length, but adjusted to work. So then when the tube comes back down, it's now permanently deformed. Crap like that.

Boeing currently has runway 11/29 closed at PAE, and has been using it as a parking lot for 787 shells for a couple of years now. They assembled the basic chassis of many airplanes with no real path to completion, rolled them out and have stored these new airplanes outside for over a year now. As they have made significant changes to the manufacturing process of the airplane, each of these will have to be brought back inside to be completely ripped apart and re-manufactured. As I flew over it a while back, I counted upwards of 25 airplanes sitting outside all around the airport. They've literally run out of places to put them, because they won't stop producing new ones to fix the catastrophe they've created.

They've also had some issues with just manufacturing skill. They've been hiring assembly mechanics who have little (if any) knowledge regarding anything mechanical. They've been running training classes to try to teach people how to drill precision holes in composites, which hasn't exactly worked, and the result is a huge number of over-sized holes and fasteners. Basically, just shoddy workmanship.

Edit: I'm not saying that it's a crap airplane, or that they're all unsafe... nothing like that. It's just that this airplane has suffered from severe and extended manufacturing problems. I'm confident that what Boeing delivers will be safe, I just think it's going to be a very long time before they've sorted out how to competently make one of these airplanes. In short, they should have stuck with the manufacturing process they used on the 777. Awesome airplane, and compared to the current situation, an absolute breeze to design and deliver.
 
Edit: I'm not saying that it's a crap airplane, or that they're all unsafe... nothing like that. It's just that this airplane has suffered from severe and extended manufacturing problems. I'm confident that what Boeing delivers will be safe, I just think it's going to be a very long time before they've sorted out how to competently make one of these airplanes. In short, they should have stuck with the manufacturing process they used on the 777. Awesome airplane, and compared to the current situation, an absolute breeze to design and deliver.

Very interesting indeed with Boeing there. I wonder if there's a combination of pressures to make delivery dates, as well as be good competition to the A380, in regards to why there would be a seeming "rush" mentality in the building process, and subsequent problems encountered that you cite.
 
They need to put starter cartridges on the E-4. Would be cool to see all four going off simultaneously. Although not nearly as impressive as the Buff doing an alert start on all 8 after being modified under operation quick start.

Used to see G model BUFFs doing that at Griffis and Wurtsmith back in the day, when they'd do the mass MITO takeoffs with the KC-135. during exercises. Between the water-injected Gs, and the water injected A-model tankers, visibility was nearly nothing near the departure end of the runway.
 
Touring the E-4 is definitely an interesting opportunity. Sometimes I wish we took some of their alert procedures and put them into out system. However, it is quite a drain of manpower to have a jet running 24/7, just in case. Maintainers can be utilized in a much better manner than watching DVDs and playing Xbox in the crew rest area. :p

Only because Ive never spent time on the SAC or STRATCOM side of the house, but generally speaking, what is the difference between the E-4 NEACP and the E-6 or old EC-135 missions?
 
E-6 took over the EC-135 Looking Glass function... The TACAMO mission has been around since the '60s to talk to ballistic subs, but added the Airborne Command Post function in the last '90s.

While both the E-6 and E-4 have Very Low Frequency communications, E-4's don't use it. Their system is the outdated system the E-6A had. The one that was able to kill a couple technicians in the past. The newer solid state transmitter is only on the E-6Bs.

In the greater food chain, NAOC E-4's are above us, as they transport VIP types. However, E-6's are self sufficient when it comes to nuclear command and control. We can back up the NAOC function as well, in the event their aircraft are out of commission for some reason.
 
In the greater food chain, NAOC E-4's are above us, as they transport VIP types. However, E-6's are self sufficient when it comes to nuclear command and control. We can back up the NAOC function as well, in the event their aircraft are out of commission for some reason.

Thats right, it is NAOC now, not NEACP.

The old EC-135s are all at DM in the boneyard, those that aren't on display. Most of them are pretty well scrapped, I was told because of the hours they had on them from the 24/7/365 flights they did back in the alert days. Which is too bad, as they would've made great KC-135s, since they retained their air refueling booms (and did air refueling of other planes at times), as well as having an A/R receiver capability. But I guess their airframes were pretty much timed out.
 
While both the E-6 and E-4 have Very Low Frequency communications, E-4's don't use it. Their system is the outdated system the E-6A had. The one that was able to kill a couple technicians in the past. The newer solid state transmitter is only on the E-6Bs
:confused::eek: Story time...
 
Used to see G model BUFFs doing that at Griffis and Wurtsmith back in the day, when they'd do the mass MITO takeoffs with the KC-135. during exercises. Between the water-injected Gs, and the water injected A-model tankers, visibility was nearly nothing near the departure end of the runway.

Looks like these guys are just doing the carts on one per wing and cross-bleeding the rest on taxi.
 
I remember hearing that story,

Something about two mechs who bypasses 7 separate safety lockouts so turn on a piece of high voltage equipment while they were in the compartment. They were electrocuted.
Ah, right, got it. Not as "interesting" (in the sense of pointing the satellite dish at someone's office and cranking up the output to boil their coffee, Bastard Operator from Hell-style) as previously anticipated.
 
USMCmech said:
I remember hearing that story,

Something about two mechs who bypasses 7 separate safety lockouts so turn on a piece of high voltage equipment while they were in the compartment. They were electrocuted.

That's the basic story... If I had the pictures, it would be a bit more interesting.

He newer system is quite a bit safer. Instead of water cooled inductors, we've moved to a solid state system. NAOC still has the old "Ironman" system and, as far as I know, does not do any VLF... Ever.
 
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