Air Force Bashing

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To those of you that just read this and see intense rivalry know that I've airdropped Marines and Army guys out of my plane at the same time and we all get along to get the mission done .... As well I know several people that have been on 29+ hour flights ...

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Special Ops guys are seriously inter-service and probably don't do all the fun bashing that's going on here! Lots of times teams are put together that include a mix of Army Rangers, Army SF, USAF PJ or CCT, SEALS, foreign SF dudes, and who knows what else. These guys train together all the time and as one SF guy once told me, "we're all trained to do the same stuff."
 
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As well I know several people that have been on 29+ hour flights and ..

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I gotta say something about this - let's start by quoting our resident Marine:

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There is something bigger going on outside of your world. Air Force? "Me, Me, Me...nice base, Crew Rest". They epitomize the lack of something bigger

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For God's sake, pleeeeeeease don't try and tell me that crew rest is something that was created because of selfish, whiny complainers. Aviation history is lined with the graves of dead aviators and passengers because of fatigue.

Lack of something bigger?!?! How about the lives of 100 or so Army soldiers or Marines riding in the back of a USAF transport, whose lives are at risk because of crew fatigue.

Maybe in the mind of a Marine, fatigue can be overcome by "toughness" or some such garbage, since toughness seems to be the basis of the USAF-bashing by the Gomer Pyles. Perhaps a Marine can still sucessfully roll in the dirt after 29+ hours, but aviators won't function with the same success in the cockpit after 29+ hours because flying is more of an intellectual pursuit.

Marines better not bash the USAF for crew rest. Leave the flying to the pros who know how to accomplish the mission effectively and SAFELY. The life of a Marine may depend on it.
 
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Leave the flying to the pros who know how to accomplish the mission effectively and SAFELY. The life of a Marine may depend on it.

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Marines have been flying longer than there has been an Air Force....
 
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Leave the flying to the pros who know how to accomplish the mission effectively and SAFELY. The life of a Marine may depend on it.

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Marines have been flying longer than there has been an Air Force....

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Ancient history - we've got a whole seperate branch of pros dedicated to flying nowadays (I guess that Marines couldn't handle aviation that well). There is lots of new stuff that Marines might not be familiar with, such as electric light.
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I forgot, Marines still hang on to a small handful of aircraft for some odd reason.
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You got helicopters? So does the Army. They have a zillion of them, so the Marines should probably step aside and let them thru so they can do job the right way.

Your F-18's? While you were out, the Navy called and left a message: they want their planes back. They have loaned them to you for too long, and they need them to do important work (not as good as the AF, but we'll let that go for now
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And the C-130's??? You gotta be kidding - give those up and let the pros at the USAF handle the Hercs!! If you Marines behave yourselves, we might even let you ride in back! At least you can rest assured that the pilots have some crew rest rules to comply with. Or is crew rest still for wusses?
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Or is crew rest still for wusses?
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Crew Rest Is A Crutch.

Before MikeD comes out of his office again.......we all know what each branch entails and we all know who the real bada$$es are.

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I forgot, Marines still hang on to a small handful of aircraft for some odd reason.
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That small handful is the fifth largest Air Force in the world....



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You got helicopters? So does the Army. They have a zillion of them, so the Marines should probably step aside and let them thru so they can do job the right way.


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Army aviation has the worst safety record of all the branches!!!

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Your F-18's? While you were out, the Navy called and left a message: they want their planes back. They have loaned them to you for too long, and they need them to do important work (not as good as the AF, but we'll let that go for now
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I'll give it to you...that was pretty funny...

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And the C-130's??? You gotta be kidding - give those up and let the pros at the USAF handle the Hercs!!


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Well, somebody's gotta be willing to fly them in combat when the EFIS is broken....
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At least you can rest assured that the pilots have some crew rest rules to comply with. Or is crew rest still for wusses?
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Now, come on, Bud...nobody said crew rest is for wusses. Marines have crew rest, too. I'm not sure where in the world that came from. It was an Air Force guy that whined because he might have to rest in a room with 3 other people. He raised the "Crew Rest" flag....and got a private room.


Three people in a room won't keep you from resting....
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Three people in a room won't keep you from resting....
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What? 3 Marines in one room... They'll be up all night long experimenting with "espirit de corp".
 
Helo missions are short, I think you could suffer a few hours low on sleep. Get 5 hours of sleep then fly a 12 hour mission, and dont forget showing up 2.5 hours before takeoff, for step briefs, file, and get the FOOD!!!
 
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. It was an Air Force guy that whined because he might have to rest in a room with 3 other people. He raised the "Crew Rest" flag....and got a private room.

Three people in a room won't keep you from resting....
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OK, I'll buy that. But there's still an attitude among many "badasses" and "tough guys" out there that fatigue is some kind of joke or a scam invented by whiners. These guys are an accident waiting to happen.
 
[Coming out of the office....]

An Army Ranger wades through a deep and stinky swamp on an operation...laden down with a 40 pound ruck and an 80 pound 60mm mortar base plate and looking around for any potential enemy, he thinks to himself "Damn, I love this sh&t!!!!!"

A Navy SEAL fights 9 foot waves as he's trying to get to his zodiac inflatable boat in the middle of the ocean at night, after making a 12 foot drop from a H-46 helo. Swallowing and spitting out salt water, and getting battered by the waves, he struggles to keep the zodiac in sight which itself is three crests away from him. Amused at the possibility of near drowning in the middle of nowhere, he thinks to himself "Damn, I LIVE for this sh&t!!!!!

A Marine Force Recon team has been trying to evade an enemy infantry force that's been hot on their tail ever since they were discovered by the enemy while doing road-watch duty in the middle of enemy territory. For 4 days, they had been monitoring this enemy line of communication, and calling in airstrikes each time an enemy convoy appeared. Now, the small team was running for their lives, trying to get to the nearest cold LZ where a chopper can pick them up. The enemy is hot on their tail, they're low on ammo, and one Marine is busy laying booby-traps behind their trail for the enemy to walk into as they move, hopefully slowing the enemy down, and giving the Marines some breathing room. As he finishes yet another booby trap surprise, the Marine thinks "Damn, this is the greatest sh&t in the world!!!!" as he prepares to move out again to the LZ still 3 miles away.

The USAF Airman is sitting in his dorm room at his deployed airbase. He's bored because it's his designated day off from his office at Finance, and he has nothing to do. He already went to the base theatre tent to catch the latest movie release, been to the chow hall for a hot meal complete with ice cream and soft drinks, has the latest magazines from the BX, and spent an hour on the treadmill at the gym tent. As he settles into his easy chair in his dorm billet, he picks up the remote control for the satellite TV and presses the "ON" button. Nothing happens....batteries are dead. The Airman, contemplating the huge amount of work it's going to be to get up and walk to the TV itself to turn it on, yells "What kind of SH&T is this?????" as he throws the remote across the room in frustration.

[back to my office......SSgt. Williams, take charge of the troops]
 
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. It was an Air Force guy that whined because he might have to rest in a room with 3 other people. He raised the "Crew Rest" flag....and got a private room.

Three people in a room won't keep you from resting....
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OK, I'll buy that. But there's still an attitude among many "badasses" and "tough guys" out there that fatigue is some kind of joke or a scam invented by whiners. These guys are an accident waiting to happen.

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Without a doubt, and I agree completely. Rest is nothing to be played with. If you're going to fly, you need to be well rested. This is true no matter what uniform you wear, and even if you don't wear one.

However, you can rest with 1 guy in the room with you, or by yourself, or if you're in a squad bay with 30 other guys. I've done it many times.

Is it luxurious? He11 no. Is it sufficient? Yes.

My whole point with this argument is the "plush" factor, as I like to call it. When I was a Sergeant in the Marine Corps, I had to keep troop welfare in my mind constantly. Troop welfare is ensuring that my Marines had someplace to sleep and that they has a meal. It wasn't ensuring that they had a private room and a Sirloin grilled to perfection.
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Ladies and Gentlemen........welcome to the longest thread in the history of the Military Forum.

Now back to our regularly scheduled AF bashing......
 
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Almost 7 pages.....see what you started BJ?!?!
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Or maybe you aren't aware of whats going on yet
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The USAF Airman is sitting in his dorm room at his deployed airbase. He's bored because it's his designated day off from his office at Finance, and he has nothing to do. He already went to the base theatre tent to catch the latest movie release, been to the chow hall for a hot meal complete with ice cream and soft drinks, has the latest magazines from the BX, and spent an hour on the treadmill at the gym tent. As he settles into his easy chair in his dorm billet, he picks up the remote control for the satellite TV and presses the "ON" button. Nothing happens....batteries are dead. The Airman, contemplating the huge amount of work it's going to be to get up and walk to the TV itself to turn it on, yells "What kind of SH&T is this?????" as he throws the remote across the room in frustration.



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This is almost exactly how it was for me when I was deployed except we only had one remote and two tv's (which sucked). The real problem was one of the recliners was broken and would not stay reclined. What kind of sh&t is that!??

Then again I am not a PJ or Combat Controller, (my vision is way below the requirments).
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But you know, the only difference for the other services on the base was their tents had dirt floors because they were too lazy to pour concrete pads for the tents.
 
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My whole point with this argument is the "plush" factor, as I like to call it. When I was a Sergeant in the Marine Corps, I had to keep troop welfare in my mind constantly. Troop welfare is ensuring that my Marines had someplace to sleep and that they has a meal. It wasn't ensuring that they had a private room and a Sirloin grilled to perfection.
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To be sure, there's a plush factor to the USAF. Mostly. But I believe that the USAF can allow for that because of the nature of its operations. Marines gotta train to live out of tents cuz that's their mission. If a deployed USAF unit has access to buildings with air conditioning on an air base someplace, great. That's home, and that's the nature of the beast. The TV's and EZ chairs are a nice touch. Were those provided by a branch that strives to maintain a high QOL, or were they provided because people whined and complained to get them? Don't know. Does it make for a soft force of Airmen? Probably contributes to that, but 1) the USAF accomplishes the mission and 2) many Airmen don't need to be hardcore badass front-line super-troopers because it's not their job.

But there are some USAF units that train to deploy for the field, and they can do the job there, too. He11, I've slept in a tent (no a/c in the South in the middle of summer, on bunks, with a bunch of other dudes, in an open field, etc. etc.) on training operations in the USAF. Me, a former USAF medic in a unit that didn't have much of a deployment mission.

No, really. Don't laugh, it's true. People handled things just fine, and we didn't even have Sirloin.
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But the Rib-eye and Filet Mignon was grilled to perfection!
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