Air ambulance training offer with only possibility of employment?

[vheissu]

I'm not currently working. Just finished a season of aerial survey.

In that case I would at least give it a shot since you have nothing to lose. You can keep the job hunt going on the side and bail if something better comes along.

 

[Beep]

Only 10% make it through the training and checkride? That is a horrible percentage, and if it's true then those people obviously aren't qualified to run a training department of any kind!

I know it's tough to be out of work, but my advice would be to hold out for something better. ( just my opinion )

 

[rocketman5150]

Has anyone ever heard of being offered ground training with the possibility of employment after completion? I'm being offered ground training but no guarantee of employment after. Sounds sketchy. Has anyone ever had experience in this scenario? It's for a king air air ambulance first officer position. I had a Skype interview and was told they would get back to me and I few days later I got this confusing email being offered training but not necessarily a job just a possibility after training... I have never heard of this. Any insight or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Think through this logically. If you already have job, then your potential employer needs to understand that you cannot accept their "maybe" offer. You need a firm offer. If they can't give to you, thank them and move on.

If you don't have a job, what do you have to lose by attending training?

Businesses are generally not in the habit of spending money on "maybe." If they are willing to pay to house and train you, it is because they expect to benefit from that in some way, and the only way to do that is to employ you.

 

[rframe]

Maybe they are sick of pilots accepting offers, scheduling training, and then jumping ship at the last minute for a better offer so their strategy is to offer people an unpaid training slot and if they show up and finish, then they know they are serious. Just a thought, since I hear this happen quite a bit in this industry. Who knows though, this is one of the most bizarre industries for the behavior of both employers and employees.

 

[rocketman5150]

Sorry to hear about your experience, thanks for sharing. I emailed the guy back asking some more questions to see what he says... But I really don't have a good feeling about it but the way he presents it is at least an opportunity to receive training and be put in a pilot pool for later openings. If anything I think they are trying to save money on one class and have some guys in the back waiting their turn... Which is crap!

What's crap about it? Airlines put people into hiring pools all the time, and they don't train them beforehand.

 

[Jherny]

Only 10% make it through the training and checkride? That is a horrible percentage, and if it's true then those people obviously aren't qualified to run a training department of any kind!

I know it's tough to be out of work, but my advice would be to hold out for something better. ( just my opinion )

I know once I read that I was like really 10%!?

 

[Jherny]

Maybe they are sick of pilots accepting offers, scheduling training, and then jumping ship at the last minute for a better offer so their strategy is to offer people an unpaid training slot and if they show up and finish, then they know they are serious. Just a thought, since I hear this happen quite a bit in this industry. Who knows though, this is one of the most bizarre industries for the behavior of both employers and employees.

Yeah wouldn't surprise...

 

[Jherny]

Think through this logically. If you already have job, then your potential employer needs to understand that you cannot accept their "maybe" offer. You need a firm offer. If they can't give to you, thank them and move on.

If you don't have a job, what do you have to lose by attending training?

Businesses are generally not in the habit of spending money on "maybe." If they are willing to pay to house and train you, it is because they expect to benefit from that in some way, and the only way to do that is to employ you.

Yeah that's kinda how I'm looking at it. At the same time I have applied at a few other places and don't want to commit to the training and find out someone else wants to interview and I'm out at this training with no job offer... I don't know what to do...

 

[Retired in SAN]

Can you clarify whether you need to relocate to where the training is done or is it a deal that you are still home at night. Sorry if I missed that part. When i did it, it was at the local airport and other than gas 4 miles each way, there weren't any additional expenses since I wasn't working anyway.

 

[deadstick]

It's for Lifeteam. Ever heard of them?

That explains everything.

 

[TheFlyingTurkey]

I have had enough of these sketchy companies jerking pilots around. I would not give them the time of day. There are lots of good air ambulance gigs out there. Go find one who speaks in plain terms.
The problem is, every pilot that accepts abuse sets a precedent for the next pilot. When will we as a workforce start sticking up for ourselves?

When you unionize!

Oh wait...

 

[Jherny]

That explains everything.

That bad huh?

 

[Jherny]

Can you clarify whether you need to relocate to where the training is done or is it a deal that you are still home at night. Sorry if I missed that part. When i did it, it was at the local airport and other than gas 4 miles each way, there weren't any additional expenses since I wasn't working anyway.

Well I would have to go up to Kansas for the training and eventually relocate to where they base me...

 

[deadstick]

To sum it up in his last email he said he filled the current positions but in his experience about 10% of hires make it through training and check ride and they will very likely need immediate hires... So I guess what they are trying to do is get you all trained up in the same class and have you as back up for the drop outs without offering you the job!?

I think all rides are with the ICT FSDO. Somebody on another board mentioned Lifeteam now has a 90 in Hawaii. I thought he had been hitting the wackey weed, but I guess not. From a former coworker who use to fly there, they lease all of their equipment and do not (did not) have an approved MEL. Don't know if that is still the case, but how do you folks think they operated without one?

(your company is really an exception in the industry)

Many AA operations are sending people to the sims. I think CAMTS is pushing this. My current and last employers send people every 12 months.

 

[desertdog71]

ICT FSDO. LOL I've had mixed success with them. If they don't like you or your boss, you are screwed.

 

[SpiraMirabilis]

Oh, it's at best gray. It's really hard to tell. Might be a way of assuring some kind of a commitment...but also might be a way of getting a guy to be on call 24/7 and barely fly for not much dosh. If it were me, I'd hash it all out with these guys re: pay/QOL/expected flight volume, etc etc etc before I pulled the trigger.

PS. I'm not sure what Methods does, but at Omni it was the same as the freight ops I've worked for, give or take. Company indoc, company groundschool, company flight training, go to a base and do some IOE, fly with (in my case) the chief pilot in your own base, off the leash. No sims.

I was hired by Methods after an interview with the regional aviation manager (basically your boss for non AMC guys) and the regional aviation director (your boss' boss) as well as the HR guy on speaker phone. They offered me the job right there. They paid for mileage ($0.55/mile), per diem and hotel stays for just coming out to the interview, paid full salary (and per diem) while in training and indoc. The only sim I touched was in indoc when they made every pilot spend an hour in the EC135 sim. Turns out if you fly a helicopter like an airplane you can shoot a pretty tight ILS!

 

[deadstick]

The only sim I touched was in indoc when they made every pilot spend an hour in the EC135 sim.

For some reason I thought you were a platypus pilot.

 

[99driver]

When you unionize!

Oh wait...

Haha right. Because the unions really helped the Comair guys along. And Mesa. And Horizon. And Expressjet. And Eagle. Oh wait, SkyWest got most of that flying. SkyWest, as in the only non-union regional out there. Ok,I know unions have their place, but striking for mainline pay in an rj? C'mon Comair! We do need to stick up for ourselves, and unions can help. But if your MEC is out of control, you will lose flying. Its that simple in the regional market place. I'll take my beating now... lets hear it...

 

[Retired in SAN]

"Turns out if you fly a helicopter like an airplane you can shoot a pretty tight ILS!"


But man it does get ugly at the bottom!

 

[scooter2525]

Maybe they are sick of pilots accepting offers, scheduling training, and then jumping ship at the last minute for a better offer so their strategy is to offer people an unpaid training slot and if they show up and finish, then they know they are serious. Just a thought, since I hear this happen quite a bit in this industry. Who knows though, this is one of the most bizarre industries for the behavior of both employers and employees.

IF thats the case, they need to offer a better benefit package to attract and retain pilots.