Air ambulance training offer with only possibility of employment?

[Jherny]

Well they said I meet the minimum requirements but didn't say what they were... I have 135 mins. I don't know if this is normal procedure for them...

 

[rd757]

From my own experience, I passed on a 135 opportunity because what they wanted to compensate me was, in plain terms, sad. I'm not saying my experience is worth $600/day, but it's definitely more than the C152 ferry pilot wage they offered. It wasn't right for me, so I couldn't do it. Go with your own gut feeling!

 

[dustoff17]

I'd be a lot more wary if they weren't picking up the hotel and training tab. It's definitely a gray area, but I can conceive of it being a legit situation where they're giving someone with low time an opportunity to get factory training on a "large" aircraft and don't want to wind up with some joker who can't find the gear knob already on the payroll. *shrug*. If the OP can tell us the name of the company, their reputation very likely precedes them...

Boris,
Unless they've changed things you won't see "factory training" from this operation (your company is really an exception in the industry)[that's why I REALLY wanted to fly for you guys!!]
I agree that you need to make sure a potential applicant has some working knowledge but I don't see why you can't pay them for the training up front.

 

[eightballfreight]

Every aviation job in the world is conditional on passing ground school.

You can only be hoodwinked here if you have to pay for training, or pay for your double occupancy hotel.
I doubt they want to pay for a month of hotel rooms to mess with you. :shrug:

 

[Boris Badenov]

Oh, it's at best gray. It's really hard to tell. Might be a way of assuring some kind of a commitment...but also might be a way of getting a guy to be on call 24/7 and barely fly for not much dosh. If it were me, I'd hash it all out with these guys re: pay/QOL/expected flight volume, etc etc etc before I pulled the trigger.

PS. I'm not sure what Methods does, but at Omni it was the same as the freight ops I've worked for, give or take. Company indoc, company groundschool, company flight training, go to a base and do some IOE, fly with (in my case) the chief pilot in your own base, off the leash. No sims.

 

[Jherny]

Every aviation job in the world is conditional on passing ground school.

You can only be hoodwinked here if you have to pay for training, or pay for your double occupancy hotel.
I doubt they want to pay for a month of hotel rooms to mess with you. :shrug:

Yeah from what is sounds like I would only be loosing money on transportation in the worst case scenario...

 

[Retired in SAN]

Well they said I meet the minimum requirements but didn't say what they were... I have 135 mins. I don't know if this is normal procedure for them...

Walk away. I fell into one of these holes back in 2007 when my flying gig of 15 years ended. A local charter company put me through H-700/800 training along with KA350 classes for free than didn't even have the decency to return calls after the training was complete to tell me either I was in or to away. Since I was coming from the helicopter side of things I thought this was normal protocol for you charter guys and went along with it. Than again, I hadn't a clue about sites like JC. Listen to your other colleagues, it's horse•. Unless you have a need to work for free. Have them sign an agreement stating if you don't wash out of the classes, then you get a job. A cheap lesson. You.re milage may vary..

 

[Jherny]

Oh, it's at best gray. It's really hard to tell. Might be a way of assuring some kind of a commitment...but also might be a way of getting a guy to be on call 24/7 and barely fly for not much dosh. If it were me, I'd hash it all out with these guys re: pay/QOL/expected flight volume, etc etc etc before I pulled the trigger.

PS. I'm not sure what Methods does, but at Omni it was the same as the freight ops I've worked for, give or take. Company indoc, company groundschool, company flight training, go to a base and do some IOE, fly with (in my case) the chief pilot in your own base, off the leash. No sims.

From our Skype interview he said it was a 10on/5 off schedule on 12 hour shifts. I can expect 2-300 hrs a year and after a yr I have the chance to move to the left seat if there is an opening.

 

[Jherny]

Walk away. I fell into one of these holes back in 2007 when my flying gig of 15 years ended. A local charter company put me through H-700/800 training along with KA350 classes for free than didn't even have the decency to return calls after the training was complete to tell me either I was in or to away. Since I was coming from the helicopter side of things I thought this was normal protocol for you charter guys and went along with it. Than again, I hadn't a clue about sites like JC. Listen to your other colleagues, it's horse . Unless you have a need to work for free. Have them sign an agreement stating if you don't wash out of the classes, then you get a job. A cheap lesson. You.re milage may vary..

Sorry to hear about your experience, thanks for sharing. I emailed the guy back asking some more questions to see what he says... But I really don't have a good feeling about it but the way he presents it is at least an opportunity to receive training and be put in a pilot pool for later openings. If anything I think they are trying to save money on one class and have some guys in the back waiting their turn... Which is crap!

 

[eightballfreight]

Walk away. I fell into one of these holes back in 2007 when my flying gig of 15 years ended. A local charter company put me through H-700/800 training along with KA350 classes for free than didn't even have the decency to return calls after the training was complete to tell me either I was in or to away. Since I was coming from the helicopter side of things I thought this was normal protocol for you charter guys and went along with it. Than again, I hadn't a clue about sites like JC. Listen to your other colleagues, it's horse . Unless you have a need to work for free. Have them sign an agreement stating if you don't wash out of the classes, then you get a job. A cheap lesson. You.re milage may vary..

Sorry for your experience, that is weird and I can't think of any financial reason to do this.
It is always a gut check when you quit one aviation job for another that may not be there if ground school/indoc/check ride, doesn't go well.

 

[Boris Badenov]

FWIW, I think that in general air ambo outfits leave less of a slime-trail behind them than regular charter outfits. It's still worth being very, very careful about, but I wouldn't just dismiss it out of hand. If the left-seat-in-a-year thing is real, it's not a bad deal for someone who's right at 135 mins.

For comparison's sake, it took me right around 7 years after getting 135 mins to find my way to the left seat of an air ambo job. Now, I think I pretty well lucked out in the gig I landed, and all are not created equal for sure, but still. I wouldn't just hit "flush" until I knew more.

 

[Retired in SAN]

I

Sorry to hear about your experience, thanks for sharing. I emailed the guy back asking some more questions to see what he says... But I really don't have a good feeling about it but the way he presents it is at least an opportunity to receive training and be put in a pilot pool for later openings. If anything I think they are trying to save money on one class and have some guys in the back waiting their turn... Which is crap!

Now I'm going to do a 180 flip on ya, If you're not currently working go to the class and make copies of all the material for future reference. Not many things more valuable in life than valuable free knowledge. If anything, you will be able to "talk King Air"

 

[KLB]

Yeah that's kind of what I got from the email... They are only paying for your time in training IF they hire you.

NO DICE! You don't get to "test drive" me without paying for it.

 

[Jherny]

To sum it up in his last email he said he filled the current positions but in his experience about 10% of hires make it through training and check ride and they will very likely need immediate hires... So I guess what they are trying to do is get you all trained up in the same class and have you as back up for the drop outs without offering you the job!?

 

[desertdog71]

To sum it up in his last email he said he filled the current positions but in his experience about 10% of hires make it through training and check ride and they will very likely need immediate hires... So I guess what they are trying to do is get you all trained up in the same class and have you as back up for the drop outs without offering you the job!?

Run like hell.

 

[Jherny]

I
Now I'm going to do a 180 flip on ya, If you're not currently working go to the class and make copies of all the material for future reference. Not many things more valuable in life than valuable free knowledge. If anything, you will be able to "talk King Air"

To be honest that crossed my mind since it is free training and I am not currently working...

 

[GX]

No I don't have to pay, and they will actually pay you for the time in training if you get hired within 180 days. They are also paying for the hotel accommodations all I have to spend money on is getting there and food...

The way that you wrote this, it implies that you're not getting paid to work. Lodging is covered, but over a period of time, eating every meal out can be really impractical, and expensive. Have you clarified the living arrangements with them?

It sounds like an ok deal, but you need to make sure that you both have a very clear understanding as to what is going to transpire once you hit the ground on location. If you're from the military, you would be shocked at how sideways something this, seemingly, straightforward thing can go. Button up every detail.

 

[vheissu]

What's your current job situation? These types of shenanigans are usually just the tip of the iceberg. Really getting tired of this crap in the 135 world..

 

[Jherny]

What's your current job situation? These types of shenanigans are usually just the tip of the iceberg. Really getting tired of this crap in the 135 world..

I'm not currently working. Just finished a season of aerial survey.

 

[Jherny]

The way that you wrote this, it implies that you're not getting paid to work. Lodging is covered, but over a period of time, eating every meal out can be really impractical, and expensive. Have you clarified the living arrangements with them?

It sounds like an ok deal, but you need to make sure that you both have a very clear understanding as to what is going to transpire once you hit the ground on location. If you're from the military, you would be shocked at how sideways something this, seemingly, straightforward thing can go. Button up every detail.

Yeah I agree...