Air Algerie Loses Contact With Plane After Takeoff

[seagull]

Our EFBs are getting hooked up to the plane's WiFi and 4 websites have been approved for our viewing: Flightaware, Intellicast, Aviation Weather, and one more I can't remember off the top of my head. I usually just put the airline/flight # in flight aware and watch our progress across the country. That along with the onboard radar does a wonderful job in terms of being able to see and pick a good way around the weather. That is, unless you are going into MCO/FLL. Then it's not so much being able to get around weather as it is going through what seems to be yellow at worse because lets face it there just isn't anything better compared to the red and purple.

That is a great asset, but remember that the tool does not differentiate between low altitude rain and convective. Some of those tools will, but not flightaware (at least, not that I have noticed).

 

[Cherokee_Cruiser]

That is a great asset, but remember that the tool does not differentiate between low altitude rain and convective. Some of those tools will, but not flightaware (at least, not that I have noticed).

Yup, it's only a top-down viewing tool to get a generic idea. We have CIWS from MIT.edu for the weather plot in which we can enter our flight route, and then see the weather, Echo tops, wind direction, storm direction, and growth/decrease trends of storms. This is the primary tool I use in addition to the onboard radar for WX deviation.

 

[killbilly]

I'd be curious as well.

Our planes, particularly our 99s, have VERY old bendix units. I've seen "shadows", but I've also seen it not paint a dang thing when flying in VMC and pointing it at something nasty. It will paint it at 40ish miles as something not that intense, and then start to disappear when getting closer.

Thanks for posting those articles @seagull My carrier also does not do much training in radar use. "Point it to paint the ground at the 40 mile ring" and "alternate between that and an angle that depicts the weather the strongest" is about all the training we get.

Radar usage is a black art, and not much talked about anymore. But it's a valuable skill to have in the ole tool-box. I think it applies more often to those of us in the, eh, let's say "marginal" parts of the Bidness, anymore. For my part, I didn't trust the radar in the 99 any further than I could throw it...and it came from 1967, so that wasn't very far at all. Damned thing had to weigh 200lbs, and was worth about a pound and a half in entertainment. But don't worry, day after tomorrow, they'll have it all figured out for us...*pause for comedic applause*.

Wuss. IMS, 3 of our ~50 210s had radar at FLX. And when I say "radar", I mean "a convenient bubble on one wingtip to blame for the fact that the damned thing flew sideways".

Wonder if the jack screw failed?

Radar is not taught too much at the higher levels of aviation I have seen. Some of the best training on I received on radar was in the class room and from my cargo jobs. The regionals barely covered it. IMO opinion on the planes that have WiFi the crews should have access to update weather charts and nexrad in flight on their ipads.

Sweet merciful crap. How is it that you guys are being given command of multi-million dollar aircraft with a tool as marvelous and useful as radar and little to no training on how to use it?

I remember some years back when Dave Gwinn was writing about radar on this very website and even then I was shocked to realize that you guys don't have formal training on it.

Makes my head all 'splodey. Of all the things about 121 that make me nuts, this is the biggest one.

Is this not a huge deficiency in both training and safety culture? From my (admittedly ignorant) position, it seems that way. What am I missing?

 

[Tommay85]

Sweet merciful crap. How is it that you guys are being given command of multi-million dollar aircraft with a tool as marvelous and useful as radar and little to no training on how to use it?

I remember some years back when Dave Gwinn was writing about radar on this very website and even then I was shocked to realize that you guys don't have formal training on it.

Makes my head all 'splodey. Of all the things about 121 that make me nuts, this is the biggest one.

Is this not a huge deficiency in both training and safety culture? From my (admittedly ignorant) position, it seems that way. What am I missing?

Indeed. I don't think any of us (the guys you quoted) are 121 though.

We did get some basic instruction. Including what I already mentioned, plus differentiating between ground targets and weather. We just didn't get any training what-so-ever on avoiding weather vertically.

To give my past and current employer a little break, the flying was/is stuck below 10k. Should just avoid everything and paint the ground occasionally to check for antenuation. I've just avoided every single thing that gets painted at any tilt angle thus far for the most part.

For AMF though, they should up the training as the Metro/1900/Brasilia fly JUST high enough where you can clear the tops and knowing if you're gonna clear the top of something by 1000 feet would be useful. I played around with it today. Definitely helps with unnecessary deviations if you can tell how high something goes. It's also nice to know how high that green "rain shower" is.

I think the primary issue is lack of literature. These units are from way back, especially in the chieftain, 99, Metro and 1900. I agree, it should be changed.

 

[seagull]

No, he is right. I knew Dave well and worked with him quite a bit. My articles use his stuff supplemented by MIT's Lincoln Lab info I gained on another project. Radar training in the 121 world is pretty dismal across the industry.

 

[Boris Badenov]

I can't speak for anyone else, but I've never been taught how to use a radar past some old badass explaining it to me during in-the-aircraft training. Now, that said, I rather suspect that the "school of hard knocks" path has given me a fairly astute notion of what to believe and what not to, but I'll openly admit that there probably is a better way to learn.

 

[Tommay85]

I can't speak for anyone else, but I've never been taught how to use a radar past some old badass explaining it to me during in-the-aircraft training. Now, that said, I rather suspect that the "school of hard knocks" path has given me a fairly astute notion of what to believe and what not to, but I'll openly admit that there probably is a better way to learn.

"Is that just rain or scorched earth?"

 

[Autothrust Blue]

No, he is right. I knew Dave well and worked with him quite a bit. My articles use his stuff supplemented by MIT's Lincoln Lab info I gained on another project. Radar training in the 121 world is pretty dismal across the industry.

You read a lot about it and then unless IOE happens to happen on a dark and stormy night, you might not get to practice it right away.

 

[seagull]

You read a lot about it and then unless IOE happens to happen on a dark and stormy night, you might not get to practice it right away.

But most of what you read is inadequate or flat out wrong.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

But most of what you read is inadequate or flat out wrong.

Won't argue with the inadequacy.

 

[MikeD]

Won't argue with the inadequacy.

Some of the best radar masters I've seen are AF Navigators, especially on airframes that use radar for not only WX, but for terrain mapping and low-level Nav.

 

[Autothrust Blue]

Some of the best radar masters I've seen are AF Navigators, especially on airframes that use radar for not only WX, but for terrain mapping and low-level Nav.

I'm not sure were we would put a Nav!

 

[derg]

I'm not sure were we would put a Nav!

The toilet. Come on, like anyone is goign to actually get up and poop on a 25 minute flight to SFO.

Oh… Wait.

 

[ChasenSFO]

The toilet. Come on, like anyone is goign to actually get up and poop on a 25 minute flight to SFO.

Oh… Wait.

The number of times a plane would do something like a 20 minute MOD-SFO, need a lav dump, then do a roundtrip on the 17 minute flight to MRY and need another lav dump was nothing short of amazing. Some people just feel that with the cost of their ticket, they're entitled to poop in the plane I guess.

 

[derg]

The number of times a plane would do something like a 20 minute MOD-SFO, need a lav dump, then do a roundtrip on the 17 minute flight to MRY and need another lav dump was nothing short of amazing. Some people just feel that with the cost of their ticket, they're entitled to poop in the plane I guess.

And a soda!

 

[ChasenSFO]

And a soda!

Hehe one time when we had rare severe thunderstorms in the area, a Brasilia came in from Klamath Falls and I got a "Hold boarding, mx needs to do a check on the plane it flew thru really heavy turbulence" call, followed by the CA coming up and quickly telling me his head was hitting the over-head panel in the turbulence and it got so bad the crew put their hats on, followed by some red-faced Oregonian redneck slamming her bag down on my counter complaining "The pilots left the damn seatbelt sign on the whole flight and the Flight Attendant was lazy and used it as an excuse not to serve our sodas, I want a supervisor RIGHT NOW and change for the vending machine" all in a 2-3 minute timespan. I lol'd in her face, then apologized and called a supervisor. He gave her $2 out of his own wallet then walked away trying not to laugh.