Air Algerie Loses Contact With Plane After Takeoff

ChasenSFO said:
"The aeroplane’s pitch and bank were then subject to significant changes. They reached,
respectively, 80° nose-down and 140° bank to the left. "

Oh man...

I'm currently reading volume 1 of Air Disasters by Macarthur Job, there are a few examples in that book of planes running into storms and not making it out. The Northwest 720 and Braniff Bac 1-11 accidents I've read about so far had some especially nasty breakup sequences. Huge thunderstorms are no joke, must have been a horrible way to go...
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MikeD said:
Southern Airways 242. A very interesting one when it comes to running into storms.
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Weather avoidance and understanding of convective weather and the impacts it can, and will, cause to turbine engines is much more understood today. However, tropical convection is still no joke and aggressive weather avoidance strategies must be utilized.

Anyone aware of the onboard weather radar setup on this aircraft?
 
surreal1221 said:
Weather avoidance and understanding of convective weather and the impacts it can, and will, cause to turbine engines is much more understood today. However, tropical convection is still no joke and aggressive weather avoidance strategies must be utilized.

Anyone aware of the onboard weather radar setup on this aircraft?
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I remember there being an issue with the type of onboard radar whereby it was susceptible to being blanked out by severe precipitation near the aircraft, and thus wouldn't be able to "see" ahead, but the crew wouldn't be aware that this was necessarily occurring, nor would the radar indicate it. With your background, I figure you'd have a better idea than most of the mechanics behind the phenomena and its effects, and I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on it.

I have noticed in a few different operations that I've been in, that WX radar ops, usage, and limitations; are things that aren't fully understood by crews.
 
MikeD said:
I remember there being an issue with the type of onboard radar whereby it was susceptible to being blanked out by severe precipitation near the aircraft, and thus wouldn't be able to "see" ahead, but the crew wouldn't be aware that this was necessarily occurring, nor would the radar indicate it. With your background, I figure you'd have a better idea than most of the mechanics behind the phenomena and its effects, and I'd be interested to hear your thoughts on it.

I have noticed in a few different operations that I've been in, that WX radar ops, usage, and limitations; are things that aren't fully understood by crews.
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I'd be curious as well.

Our planes, particularly our 99s, have VERY old bendix units. I've seen "shadows", but I've also seen it not paint a dang thing when flying in VMC and pointing it at something nasty. It will paint it at 40ish miles as something not that intense, and then start to disappear when getting closer.

Thanks for posting those articles @seagull My carrier also does not do much training in radar use. "Point it to paint the ground at the 40 mile ring" and "alternate between that and an angle that depicts the weather the strongest" is about all the training we get.
 
Radar usage is a black art, and not much talked about anymore. But it's a valuable skill to have in the ole tool-box. I think it applies more often to those of us in the, eh, let's say "marginal" parts of the Bidness, anymore. For my part, I didn't trust the radar in the 99 any further than I could throw it...and it came from 1967, so that wasn't very far at all. Damned thing had to weigh 200lbs, and was worth about a pound and a half in entertainment. But don't worry, day after tomorrow, they'll have it all figured out for us...*pause for comedic applause*.
 
Back in the cargo days, only 2 of our chieftains had radars, the rest in the fleet had 3M Stormscopes, which was a fairly useful item
 
Boris Badenov said:
Radar usage is a black art, and not much talked about anymore. But it's a valuable skill to have in the ole tool-box. I think it applies more often to those of us in the, eh, let's say "marginal" parts of the Bidness, anymore. For my part, I didn't trust the radar in the 99 any further than I could throw it...and it came from 1967, so that wasn't very far at all. Damned thing had to weigh 200lbs, and was worth about a pound and a half in entertainment. But don't worry, day after tomorrow, they'll have it all figured out for us...*pause for comedic applause*.
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I was surprised to see a DISH and not the flat emitter(like I've seen on other airplanes) one day when the nose was removed for maintenance... :)
 
MikeD said:
Back in the cargo days, only 2 of our chieftains had radars, the rest in the fleet had 3M Stormscopes, which was a fairly useful item
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Wuss. IMS, 3 of our ~50 210s had radar at FLX. And when I say "radar", I mean "a convenient bubble on one wingtip to blame for the fact that the damned thing flew sideways".
 
Boris Badenov said:
Wuss. IMS, 3 of our ~50 210s had radar at FLX. And when I say "radar", I mean "a convenient bubble on one wingtip to blame for the fact that the damned thing flew sideways".
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My first cargo company, we had nothing but the Mk1 eyeball for radar in our Lance and 207s. At least you has something electronic mister! :D
 
Radar picture is going to vary wildly based on the radar you're using. For instance, a storm that gets painted at long distances may not show up nearby, because your particular radar uses a longer wavelength for long distances- which will show weaker returns than a short wavelength would. Some give you the option of using long waves at short ranges too, which is great for identifying precip, but not ideal for discriminating heavy returns.

If you have an ISO-echo (ie some kind of filtering feature), use it. Really helps determining just how heavy the return is.
 
MikeD said:
Back in the cargo days, only 2 of our chieftains had radars, the rest in the fleet had 3M Stormscopes, which was a fairly useful item
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Stormscopes are cool stuff, our TwinBo has one. The ideal combination would be to have a stormscope, plus an onboard radar, plus a datalink for the "big but somewhat delayed" picture.

In this respect, ForeFlight is handy for showing you that yes, in fact, that thunderstorm IS overlying the departure procedure you intend to fly.
 
Wonder if the jack screw failed?

Radar is not taught too much at the higher levels of aviation I have seen. Some of the best training on I received on radar was in the class room and from my cargo jobs. The regionals barely covered it. IMO opinion on the planes that have WiFi the crews should have access to update weather charts and nexrad in flight on their ipads.
 
Here either.

We did quite a bit at Skyway, but turns out it really wasn't operationally-oriented as much as it was a former UND "Spectrum" guy with too much time on his hands and misappropriated autonomy. Kind of like that scene from "Boomerang" when Marcus gives that marketing guy a little too much freedom for the Strangé campaign. Look it up, kids.

Most of the rest has been "We've got radar!".

The 330's was pretty cool because it scanned in three dimensions and just drove you to avoid the returns. But in the other airplanes, it's a strange combination of range, tilt, gain and 'other'.
 
Derg said:
The 330's was pretty cool because it scanned in three dimensions and just drove you to avoid the returns. But in the other airplanes, it's a strange combination of range, tilt, gain and 'other'.
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Airbus takes good care of you.

Another satisfied customer. :)
 
The best (and only) real radar stuff I learned about weather and radar was in the Navy. Perversely, that stuff was all about the characteristics of weather and how it interfered with the detection of surface and air targets.

I now apply that knowledge in reverse. Funny old world.
 
MikeD said:
That's what your Ipad is for :D
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The aviation world, in some respects, 2014.

Electronics and in-flight data information, in the passenger airline business, is still stuck a little post-Gutenberg era waiting for the FAA to realize it's not 1940 and the bean counters at the airline that are absolutely cringing at the idea of spending a cent on anything other than paint.
 
Derg said:
Here either.

We did quite a bit at Skyway, but turns out it really wasn't operationally-oriented as much as it was a former UND "Spectrum" guy with too much time on his hands and misappropriated autonomy. Kind of like that scene from "Boomerang" when Marcus gives that marketing guy a little too much freedom for the Strangé campaign. Look it up, kids.

Most of the rest has been "We've got radar!".

The 330's was pretty cool because it scanned in three dimensions and just drove you to avoid the returns. But in the other airplanes, it's a strange combination of range, tilt, gain and 'other'.
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You might be surprised at the limits they placed on that 3D scan, though. Not always as well thought out as they should be. OK at altitude, not so much down low.
 
Our EFBs are getting hooked up to the plane's WiFi and 4 websites have been approved for our viewing: Flightaware, Intellicast, Aviation Weather, and one more I can't remember off the top of my head. I usually just put the airline/flight # in flight aware and watch our progress across the country. That along with the onboard radar does a wonderful job in terms of being able to see and pick a good way around the weather. That is, unless you are going into MCO/FLL. Then it's not so much being able to get around weather as it is going through what seems to be yellow at worse ;) because lets face it there just isn't anything better compared to the red and purple.
 
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