ADS-B Question
- Thread starter Ken White
- Start date
A
Adler
Guest
Yes. Say we are supposed to cross a fix at 250, but we're doing our to best slow and cross at 260...
somewhereupthere
Well-Known Member
FAA has deployed the ADS-B ground infrastructure, but controller and pilot use of ADS-B information throughout the NAS remains years away. As of April 2014, FAA reported that the ADS-B ground infrastructure has been completed with the deployment of 634 ground radio stations. However, only limited ADS-B services are being provided to pilots and air traffic controllers, due in part to the fact that FAA has yet to complete modernization of its air traffic automation systems to accommodate ADS-B technology. In addition, FAA’s operational testing identified problems related to the display of ADS-B data on FAA’s air traffic control automation systems. According to FAA, a lack of sufficient numbers of users who have equipped with ADS-B avionics makes it difficult to test the entire system—ground infrastructure, aircraft avionics, and controller automation—to ensure it can be used to safely manage air traffic in congested airspace. Finally, FAA has not yet fully developed a system to monitor the performance and operational safety of the ground equipment and help avoid and resolve outages.
http://download.aopa.org/advocacy/FAAADS-BProgramAuditReport.pdf
http://download.aopa.org/advocacy/FAAADS-BProgramAuditReport.pdf
genot
Well-Known Member
As of right now, not much operationally on the TRACON side of things.
I can tell who has ADSB and their ADSB reply number on an entry or on a pref set call up, but probably 1 in 1,000 have ADSB so its a waste of time.
Speaking strictly TRACON the difference is entirely based on fusion RADAR balanced with the number of antennas. If only one antenna paints you and you don't have ADSB its several seconds to an update like the old days. Conversely, in the terminal environment with multiple RADAR painting a target and ADSB to boot, its like having ASDE-X AND PRM monitors on your regular feed. When everything works I can see aircraft taxi out before release and I can tell if you're hand flying.
I can tell who has ADSB and their ADSB reply number on an entry or on a pref set call up, but probably 1 in 1,000 have ADSB so its a waste of time.
Speaking strictly TRACON the difference is entirely based on fusion RADAR balanced with the number of antennas. If only one antenna paints you and you don't have ADSB its several seconds to an update like the old days. Conversely, in the terminal environment with multiple RADAR painting a target and ADSB to boot, its like having ASDE-X AND PRM monitors on your regular feed. When everything works I can see aircraft taxi out before release and I can tell if you're hand flying.
Bernoulli Fan
Controller
For center over the ocean, we can see your callsign from ADS-B while you're still squawking 2000. That alone makes it worth the money spent, I'm sure. 
fholbert
Mod's - Please don't edit my posts!
For center over the ocean, we can see your callsign from ADS-B while you're still squawking 2000. That alone makes it worth the money spent, I'm sure.
Yea, how much did you spend on ADS-B?
Here's my question. If the computer knows the tail number of mode s returns why do we need to be assigned a discrete squawk?
Stone Cold
Well-Known Member
You squawk 1000 in some places in Europe. I think we'll see this more and more as technology improves.
Capt. Chaos
Well-Known Member
Talking to the controllers up here the ADS-B updates much faster on their screen. Also the primary radar floor around here is 6000ft up to 20,000ft, with the ADS-B we now have almost 100 radar coverage to the ground in most of SE AK.
somewhereupthere
Well-Known Member
Vector4Food
This job would be easier without all the airplanes
Don't worry guys
Canada is coming to revolutionize Air Travel as you know it
Canada is coming to revolutionize Air Travel as you know it
Stinger
Well-Known Member
The aircraft will still need ADS-B in/out for the system to work don't they? The majority still aren't equipped yet. How quick can ATC and pilots communicate over data-link?
Vector4Food
This job would be easier without all the airplanes
The majority of those going oceanic are
You're right due to lack of VHF that it won't exactly as efficient as a pure radar environment.
We've been told that within 10 years ADS-B onboard gear will be as cheap or cheaper than a Mode-S setup
Roger Roger
Bottom of the list
It is now for GA.
z987k
Well-Known Member
The oceanic traffic is ads-c.
Bernoulli Fan
Controller
I'm not really sure of the intent of your question, but if you want an honest answer, the FAA received around $11 billion over the last four years for NextGen. It's hard to separate how much of that went specifically toward ADS-B service and preparation, but as a taxpayer, my opinion is that the value received was very low compared to the cost.
I understand that non-radar portions of some extremities of the country have benefited, but as a controller, for most contiguous US center operations, we are still constrained by radar update and separation limitations as ADS-B is not considered reliable enough to use without radar backup.
As a pilot, I am also of the opinion that the 2020 mandate is excessive and the FAA's reliance on the market to come up with inexpensive out-only solutions has so far resulted in around $5,000 being the lowest available cost for a piece of qualifying equipment -- much too expensive.
The 7110.65 does not yet provide for using ADS-B as a method of "radar identification."
Capt. Chaos
Well-Known Member
ZAN has been using ADS-B for close to 4 years now for radar identification. Though their software was the test bed for ADS-B, but it took years of testing and data/risk analysis to get to that point.
Stinger
Well-Known Member
Tracons that use Fusion are able to use the ADS-B target just like any other radar target. If the radar goes out for maintenance, we're still getting ADS-B updates on the aircraft that have it. As long as we see them, we use standard radar separation.
Bernoulli Fan
Controller
That's nice you guys can use it already. I'm surprised they haven't shown more alacrity with centers (besides ZAN); some center airspace in mountainous regions could really benefit from it.
GolfChuck
Trustworthy Source
That may have been the funniest serious video I have ever seen. Gander doesn't even take minimum separation now, maybe NavCanada should start using the rules available today.
Vector4Food
This job would be easier without all the airplanes
Yes, and that is a requirement for RLAT participation.
However, while we don't use it much (yet) ADS-B is, as far as I know, onboard many aircraft participating in the NAT airspace.
If airlines can start getting preferential routings when Aireon goes online, I'd expect that everyone will get the gear quickly.