Accident

GypsyPilot said:
Flying max range to a mountainous airport with weather is unnecessary and just not a good way to do things. Sure as heck not as a charter or airline operator.
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I disagree. I think it's fine provided you are pro-active, both with ATC and in diverting early when it looks like things aren't going to work out for you. his is the kind of flight that needs planning. Sitting in a hold and waiting for the engines to fail before doing anything about it is unnecessary.
 
Guys I can't stress this enough. If you have ANY kind of issue, and you need to land ASAP, for gods sake say EMERGENCY immediately. Even if it doesn't wind up being an emergency, say it. Lots of ATC are not pilots, none are mind readers. If you're telling us you're having an issue but don't declare emergency, there's a good chance we won't think it's that serious and you have it under control. You say EMERGENCY and we will clear a path for you like Moses through the Red Sea.

Personal anecdote. My only fatality was a Be36 that ran out of gas. His initial call with a problem was "approach my power seems to be dropping for some reason". I think 2-3 minutes might have gone by before I understood the gravity of his situation. He never once declared emergency. I declared emergency for him. He went into the trees 1/2 mile short of a runway. I honestly believe had he told me EMERGENCY right away, that extra minute or two would have been enough to get him to the runway.
 
MikeD said:
Can happen. Seen it myself. Albeit not with transport category aircraft and pretty darn rare, but the exact thing you wrote here, I've seen firsthand.

Sometimes, crap combines to make even the best laid plans, go straight to hell. Not necessarily related to this accident, but talking in general.
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Agreed.
Mine was more about the runway sweep than the two emergencies at the same time. I think the airport compounded the issue. As for me, I would rather hit some FOD on the runway than hit some granite on a mountain.
 
ClarkGriswold said:
Let me guess it's that damn SUPER CRITICAL WING again?
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IMG_2370.GIF
 
Do Columbian ATC procedures differ from ours in the States, i.e., if this was in the US would the outcome have been any different?
 
NickH said:
I disagree. I think it's fine provided you are pro-active, both with ATC and in diverting early when it looks like things aren't going to work out for you. his is the kind of flight that needs planning. Sitting in a hold and waiting for the engines to fail before doing anything about it is unnecessary.
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Clearly we aren't understanding each other, or at least I hope so. By max range I mean that you do not plan on arriving at your destination with less than 30 mins of fuel. I'm sure you're much smarter than that.
 
dustoff17 said:
Agreed.
Mine was more about the runway sweep than the two emergencies at the same time. I think the airport compounded the issue. As for me, I would rather hit some FOD on the runway than hit some granite on a mountain.
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The situation I was referencing was a field where there was moderate rain and x-winds and no viable alternates, and the fighters recovering were having to take the short field arresting gear due to the wet/standing water runway. All were low on fuel, and after one of the planes, the short-field gear wouldn't fully retract, so the airfield ops guys were scrambling to get it reset and in battery for the next F-4 on fumes coming down the PAR and popping out of the WX. Was just a crazy compounding situation that seemed like Murphy wouldn't keep messing with.
 
NickH said:
I disagree. I think it's fine provided you are pro-active, both with ATC and in diverting early when it looks like things aren't going to work out for you. his is the kind of flight that needs planning. Sitting in a hold and waiting for the engines to fail before doing anything about it is unnecessary.
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Yeah, because flying to the destination, then to the most distant alternate, then for 45 minutes thereafter at regular cruising speed is totally an excessive safety factor.
 
Autothrust Blue said:
Yeah, because flying to the destination, then to the most distant alternate, then for 45 minutes thereafter at regular cruising speed is totally an excessive safety factor.
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Hopefully he means divert before cutting into the 45 min reserve.

If not, it's why I'm thinking of taking a 70k a year pay cut to fly 121


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Autothrust Blue said:
Yeah, because flying to the destination, then to the most distant alternate, then for 45 minutes thereafter at regular cruising speed is totally an excessive safety factor.
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Suitable diversion airports in that part of the world tend to be much fewer and more challenging than back stateside, so smart money would give even more fudge factor than that.
 
Autothrust Blue said:
Yeah, because flying to the destination, then to the most distant alternate, then for 45 minutes thereafter at regular cruising speed is totally an excessive safety factor.
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Was kind of funny going from jets to helos, and thinking the same thing; the difference being now that my alternate I can reach and likely even 30 mins past that, will probably still have the same WX as the original destination. :D
 
MikeD said:
Was kind of funny going from jets to helos, and thinking the same thing; the difference being now that my alternate I can reach and likely even 30 mins past that, will probably still have the same WX as the original destination. :D
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Going slow therefore long time all destinations?
 
MikeD said:
Was kind of funny going from jets to helos, and thinking the same thing; the difference being now that my alternate I can reach and likely even 30 mins past that, will probably still have the same WX as the original destination. :D
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Helicopter ILS: Drop down and follow the fenceposts. Helicopter missed approach: Can't see fenceposts, set her down here and walk the rest of the way.
 
GypsyPilot said:
Clearly we aren't understanding each other, or at least I hope so. By max range I mean that you do not plan on arriving at your destination with less than 30 mins of fuel. I'm sure you're much smarter than that.
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I hope so alternate if required and 45, etc. But that's max range. I'm not aiming to run the tanks dry on the taxiway. But I'm also not going to use those 45 minutes holding while staring at the fuel gauges. Exit strategy at all times.
 
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