Firebird2XC
Well-Known Member
The USA Today headline said something to the effect of this adding interest to rest rule reform.
Apparently the crew was at the end of a very long day.
AAL331 Off Runway in Jamaica - No Fatalities
- Thread starter Rizer
- Start date
The USA Today headline said something to the effect of this adding interest to rest rule reform.
Apparently the crew was at the end of a very long day.
Minuteman
Moⅾerator
AA331 goes from DCA-MIA-KIN and averages 9.2 hrs from takeoff in Washington to landing at Kingston; 2.4 from DCA-MIA & 5.3 for MIA-KIN (so 1.5 on the ground in MIA).
Maybe another 0.6 per leg for Out & In? How much more non-block-time do you figure isn't represented there (i.e., from show to release) if the crew's complete day is AA331?
Maybe another 0.6 per leg for Out & In? How much more non-block-time do you figure isn't represented there (i.e., from show to release) if the crew's complete day is AA331?
Firebird2XC
Well-Known Member
I'm estimating it was way too much, apparently.
It looks like the race to the bottom is finally bottoming out.
While truly a sad occurrence, I might add with some resolve that it appears to be affecting our mainline brothers and sister as much as us 'regional' types.
Experience kinda goes out the window when you've fatigued your mind and body to the brink, no matter who you are or what you fly.
Vector4Food
This job would be easier without all the airplanes
OldTownPilot
Well-Known Member
I'm curious if anyone knows if AAL went for the carbon brake upgrade kit for their 737s?
If all else fails blame Southwest, seriously. Follow this.
The stretch NG 737s are certainly an interesting beast when it comes to landing performance. With the stretch they have to to land flatter to not hit the tail, which meas landing faster, toss on the weight of an airplane that seats 160 for the gear/brakes designed for a plane that seats 100, means less braking performance. The -900s are even worse. When EWR gets string winds from the west, the -900 can't land in EWR (everything else can even 777s). 29 is too short, and its above max X-wing for 4/22.
Its really amazing what Southwest was able to convince Boeing to do as far as under designing the current generation of 737s. In what really should have been a clean sheet design Southwest but Boeings balls in vice to make the NG basically a -300/400 with a new wing and slightly more efficient engines. Same gear, same systems, same structure, etc. Its really a shame that Southwest forced Boeing to only make a plane that only marginally matched the Airbus line and not surpass it as the NG was almost 10 years behind the 320 in development.
In other news that day Ryanair also had a -800 go off the end of the runway the same day over in the UK, although that was not nearly as dramatic (and not a hull loss). A trend of what may be to come?
That road sure did a number on the airplane. First the dropoff that you can see in that last pic and the incline on the other side that you can see on the pics looking from the back of the plane. I'm nut sure what would have been better as far as injuries go, the case that we have here with a sudden deceleration from hitting the road and the plane breaking up or a smooth runout area where the plane went into the water in one piece. Obviously if the lane went into the water after breaking up (if the plane in this case went another 150 feet) thing could have been MUCH worse from drowning etc.
If all else fails blame Southwest, seriously. Follow this.
The stretch NG 737s are certainly an interesting beast when it comes to landing performance. With the stretch they have to to land flatter to not hit the tail, which meas landing faster, toss on the weight of an airplane that seats 160 for the gear/brakes designed for a plane that seats 100, means less braking performance. The -900s are even worse. When EWR gets string winds from the west, the -900 can't land in EWR (everything else can even 777s). 29 is too short, and its above max X-wing for 4/22.
Its really amazing what Southwest was able to convince Boeing to do as far as under designing the current generation of 737s. In what really should have been a clean sheet design Southwest but Boeings balls in vice to make the NG basically a -300/400 with a new wing and slightly more efficient engines. Same gear, same systems, same structure, etc. Its really a shame that Southwest forced Boeing to only make a plane that only marginally matched the Airbus line and not surpass it as the NG was almost 10 years behind the 320 in development.
In other news that day Ryanair also had a -800 go off the end of the runway the same day over in the UK, although that was not nearly as dramatic (and not a hull loss). A trend of what may be to come?
That road sure did a number on the airplane. First the dropoff that you can see in that last pic and the incline on the other side that you can see on the pics looking from the back of the plane. I'm nut sure what would have been better as far as injuries go, the case that we have here with a sudden deceleration from hitting the road and the plane breaking up or a smooth runout area where the plane went into the water in one piece. Obviously if the lane went into the water after breaking up (if the plane in this case went another 150 feet) thing could have been MUCH worse from drowning etc.
ILSstud
Well-Known Member
That is an interesting read...I was under the impression that most of the internal systems (including the brake system) were upgraded from the older 737 variants.
WestIndian425
Well-Known Member
I sincerely doubt it will take 5.3 hours to go MIA-KIN. It takes just about 3 hours to go MIA-POS!!
CaptBill
Well-Known Member
Heavy rain on a non grooved runway that is likely very slippery when wet would certainly have my attention. Perhaps "scared" is not the word, but something like "on high alert" would work.
Agree.
As I mentioned before, I hadn't heard if there were any braking action advisories in effect or otherwise reported prior?
subpilot
Squawking 7600
That is so sad to see.
StrykerINF
Well-Known Member
Good Lord, I didn't realize it broke up that badly... kind of scary to think about. I gotta hand it to Boeing though. If they designed the airplane to do that on overshooting the runway and no one being killed- mad props to them. Kind of makes me wonder what would happen if they got their way and moved their operations to China.
CaptBill
Well-Known Member
Accurate braking reports are difficult to come by at many airports. You just have to assume "poor at best" at many places, especially with heavy rain. I am not above holding for 10 or 15 minutes either if it appears the heaviest of the weather might move through. Heavy rain also makes it difficult to accurately identify the touchdown zone at times making it easier to land a bit long. This is one of the most challenging environments that I have experienced to land safely in, especially at night.
Agree. I've hydroplaned a few times in the jet in the last 1/3 of the runway and it definitely gets your attention. Makes me understand exactly why some NAS/MCAS jet bases go automatically to long-field arrestments for their tactical jets when it's wet with crosswinds.
amjon
Pilot and A Half (for now
The news was reporting yesterday that they landed with a tailwind. Has anyone else heard anything about that? (Of course, this was the same station that had just finished reporting that the road was still OPEN instead of closed. )
Qgar
New Member
I agree that it's a sad sight. However, a broken bird is much better than broken people!
Minuteman
Moⅾerator
MKJP 230400Z 32014KT 11500 +SHRA BKN014 FEW016CB SCT028 BKN090 21/18 Q1013 RERA
MKJP 230300Z 32008KT 33000 +SHRA BKN014 FEW016CB SCT030 BKN100 21/20 Q1014 RETSRA
MKJP 230228Z 31009KT 5000 TSRA BKN014 FEW016CB SCT030 BKN100 22/19 Q1013
They landed on RWY 12.
zmiller4
Well-Known Member
With that weather, it's likely that an ILS 12 was the only valid option. If the performance numbers and company procedures allow it, there's nothing inherently awful about landing with an 8-9kt tailwind.
JA Yawd Bwoy
Well-Known Member
MIA-KIN is not even a 1.5 so your definitely correct!
pullup
Homewrecker
Nuh-uh!!! It takes longer than that if you goof-up duration calc. around midnight!
Depends how long they are on their laptops for.
JA Yawd Bwoy
Well-Known Member
Good One!
:clap: