AAG to Transfer Envoy ERJ-145s to TSA and Piedmont

ATN_Pilot said:
Where's Charlie? I wonder if he's picked his mic back up yet.
Click to expand...

He's spreading his propaganda all over Facebook. Envoy is a toxic pilot group because of people like him. Thousands of people's lives are being ruined because they all thought this was one big joke.

The company is bluffing. Other Regionals can't staff their current flying let alone new flying. We will get the planes anyway...and on and on the rhetoric went. Envoy should become a case study at Aviation Universities across the country.

Comair didn't have a choice when they were shut down. Envoy was given a choice not once but THREE times and each time chose to spit in the company's face while laughing about it. Tragic, sad, and absolutely ridiculous.
 
Depends on how you look at it. They drew a line and said " Id rather this place shut down than to work for this contract". And the company said, 'ok, we'll shut it down'. There really is no such thing as leverage in the Regional airlines.
 
Kingairer said:
Depends on how you look at it. They drew a line and said " Id rather this place shut down than to work for this contract". And the company said, 'ok, we'll shut it down'. There really is no such thing as leverage in the Regional airlines.
Click to expand...

Not exactly. Although they will deny it now, they all voted NO thinking the company was bluffing. The general consensus was that nobody else could replace us because of some fairy tale shortage. Even though there was evidence to the contrary such as full classes at Mesa and PSA. Of course our MEC weaseled their way out of that by convincing everyone those airlines were down to phone interviews and scraping the bottom of the barrel.

Nobody believed a NO vote would result in what is happening now. Many are simply shifting gears to cover their tracks and hoping nobody notices.
 
It's sad when the ignorance and arrogance of a few results in the many losing their jobs. Hopefully others in the industry will take notice and remember this when a ragtag group of militant losers tries to tell them that they know better than the attorneys, financial analysts, and negotiators.
 
saxman said:
So are you saying they should have taken concessions to fly bigger airplanes? They did all of us regional guys a favor by doing so. However, we all have to say no. PSA did not. I think it's the company that spit in the pilot's face. Twice!
Click to expand...

Someone recently posted a thread on here asking which regional he should go work with. I believe that almost every person responded with PSA. Then, in another thread, PSA is being accused of "spitting" in the faces of the Envoy guys. What are the real opinions on all of this? There seems to be some harsh lines being drawn. Did PSA take concessions and intentionally screw the other regionals to better themselves? Are the guys that flock to TSA and Piedmont any better or worse than PSA? Was the PSA contract really a "concession", or just the new norm for the industry?

I feel bad about the Envoy guys losing the airplanes, as I am sure almost everyone else on here does.
 
This probably isn't news to anybody here (at least it shouldn't be) but the uncomfortable reality is that regional airlines are simply subcontractors, and just like any other industry the sub that generates the greatest profitability to the contractors/end users gp margin gets the work.

As a sub, when the top line of the balance sheet is fixed, you have to adjust the parts in the middle for the bottom line to stay in the black. If you can't do that then you're done.
 
I'm very surprised by the tone of this discussion. Yes, the pilots voted down a contract offer. I don't think a lot of them did it because they thought they would "win" the negotiations or bring the company to their knees. But instead they voted no because they had reached their bottom line and didn't care to work for less.

Management is deciding to place the planes elsewhere and shrinking the airline. While it is unfortunate other employees may lose their jobs over it, that's business. The regional airlines shrinking away is a good thing for the profession.

I just don't understand the gloating about this one in particular going away because they said no to a contract.
 
Skyvector said:
Not exactly. Although they will deny it now, they all voted NO thinking the company was bluffing. The general consensus was that nobody else could replace us because of some fairy tale shortage. Even though there was evidence to the contrary such as full classes at Mesa and PSA. Of course our MEC weaseled their way out of that by convincing everyone those airlines were down to phone interviews and scraping the bottom of the barrel.

Nobody believed a NO vote would result in what is happening now. Many are simply shifting gears to cover their tracks and hoping nobody notices.
Click to expand...
Speak for yourself. I voted the way I did assuming this was going to happen. Do I like it? Hell no. But if need be, I'll turn out the lights with my head held high and having no regrets. I'm proud to have Envoy listed on my résumé, and when I look into the eyes of another pilot, they'll know I did my part to try and improve our profession.
 
Mane folks get caught up in the my contract is better than yours stuff so easily. CBAs differences between all regionals are miniscule. Longevity is where the huge differences are. Heard there are 300+ Captains at Eagle that are staying and not flowing.

Management plays this same game with the Outstation contracts. Rampers get too senior, contractor is outbid, new guy comes in, hires the same employees at year one pay.

Right now if you're a stagnated regional FO, there as never been more opportunity in the industry. Plenty of options available to further your career.
 
Regional pilots get treated and paid like scum and we are worth a lot more than what we get. Last year a large number of us decided to vote down concessionary contracts in an attempt to make a stand that enough was enough, this was about as firm of a stand as the industry can do because of restrictive labor laws that would make a regional wide strike practically impossible. The result was pilots maintaining their worth in an effort to deny managements continued pressure to cut the already abhorrent payscale any further. PSA took a contract many found to be insulting, and many other regional pilots found their actions to be a lack of solidarity and shameful. Piedmont did the same and are viewed very similarly.

PSA and Piedmonts actions hurt the rest of the industry as the whipsaw continues, now a worse payscale than before is to be considered the new normal. That's disgusting.
 
Ajax said:
Regional pilots get treated and paid like scum and we are worth a lot more than what we get. Last year a large number of us decided to vote down concessionary contracts in an attempt to make a stand that enough was enough, this was about as firm of a stand as the industry can do because of restrictive labor laws that would make a regional wide strike practically impossible. The result was pilots maintaining their worth in an effort to deny managements continued pressure to cut the already abhorrent payscale any further. PSA took a contract many found to be insulting, and many other regional pilots found their actions to be a lack of solidarity and shameful. Piedmont did the same and are viewed very similarly.

PSA and Piedmonts actions hurt the rest of the industry as the whipsaw continues, now a worse payscale than before is to be considered the new normal. That's disgusting.
Click to expand...

Unless you're planning on staying at the regionals for the balance of your career, there is nothing insulting or disgusting about the PSA or Piedmont deals.
 
Screaming_Emu said:
That and I'm pretty sure he was at least a little involved with the PSA pilot group when they did their thing.
Click to expand...

Not really. I was elected form the caucus that included PSA, but they had their own candidate, so I don't think I got any of their votes. And after I was in office, they were pretty much self-sustaining. They didn't need much help like some MECs do. Other than an occasional conversation with their MEC Chairman, I had no involvement when they "did their thing."

This is just a matter of pragmatism. Shooting yourself in the foot is not a wise move, and that's exactly what the Envoy pilots did. They had the opportunity to get these airplanes, and they passed it up. All of the experts told them what was going to happen, and while some of them accepted it and made a decision with that reality in mind, most of them had crazy ideas that management was "bluffing," or that the other airlines wouldn't be able to take the planes for various reasons. In short, they thought they were smarter than the experts, and now they're suffering the consequences. I hope everyone uses it as a learning opportunity.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Dacuj
Envoy Growing
2 3 4
Replies
79
Views
5K
CFI A&P
CFI A&P
NewsBot
  • Locked
Shuttle Bus Dispatcher
Replies
0
Views
664
NewsBot
NewsBot
Cherokee_Cruiser
Oh RJ N00b (a PSA rant)
3 4 5
Replies
86
Views
16K
Adler
A
F
The Pleasure of Their Company (long)
Replies
12
Views
3K
ppragman
ppragman
Space Monkey
The "good" ol' days...
Replies
6
Views
4K
///AMG
///AMG
Back
Top