AAG to Transfer Envoy CRJ-700s to PSA

Cherokee_Cruiser said:
A JC member is openly lying about their place of employment as pilot. You can give him a pass because you are buddy-buddy with him but that doesn't really make it okay.
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With everything you two talked about this is the sticking point for you? He said it in jest because he knows it gets under your skin. Everyone that read that knew that with one exception. Wanna guess what/who that is?
 
Back on topic here...

On the Stop The Whipsaw facebook page, I just saw this posted.

PSA MEC comments on AAGs shifting of aircraft from Envoy to PSA.

September 4, 2014

Dear PSA Pilots:

Today American Airlines Group announced that 47 CRJ-701 aircraft will be transferred from Envoy to PSA beginning in mid-2015. This decision was made by Group management to rationally align fleet types and reduce costs. The tough choices that we made last year to trade certain high longevity and benefit provisions for things we valued more—career progression and job security—have again borne fruit for this pilot group.

While growth is good for our airline, my heart goes out to our ALPA colleagues at Envoy who will be affected by this move. I pledge to work with our management and Envoy’s ALPA leadership to find jobs for any Envoy pilot who wants to work at PSA. We have a duty to take care of our fellow pilots in their time of need.

As we continue to place 30 CRJ-900s into service and follow with these 47 CRJ-701s, we will undoubtedly find it more difficult to attract qualified pilots to the airline. We must improve key contractual provisions to complete that task. A full-fledged flow-through without an interview and starting pay that more adequately reflects our level of training and qualifications are the first items on that list.

Finally, please handle this announcement with the aplomb and grace of a professional PSA pilot. We may deal with pilots who have varied views on our growth and I encourage you to help educate them on the best terms of our contract. It’s a good day for PSA and our collective future.

In unity,

Jesse A. Coeling
MEC Chairman
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Gonzo said:
If he really cared he would he would try to negotiate an LOA with management that would allow Eagle pilots DOH for pay and line biding if they come over to work at PSA.
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Yeah...the whole sympathy for the eaglevoy pilots bit comes across a liiiitle silly to me looking in from the outside. "Sorry we took your jobs, but if you want you can go back to year one pay and sling gear for guys who were probably still in high school back when you upgraded at beagle" (I don't know how deep things will go at envoy, that might be hyperbole)
 
Gonzo said:
If he really cared he would he would try to negotiate an LOA with management that would allow Eagle pilots DOH for pay and line biding if they come over to work at PSA.
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Assuming he tried, what would be the realistic probability of being able to actually get that with management?
 
MikeD said:
Assuming he tried, what would be the realistic probability of being able to actually get that with management?
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The cost to the company would be very little with their pay scales,the harder part would be getting his pilots to agree to it.
 
Gonzo said:
The cost to the company would be very little with their pay scales,the harder part would be getting his pilots to agree to it.
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Interesting. Hadn't considered that angle, where management would be more amicable than the pilot group to it. Sucky situation.
 
Gonzo said:
The cost to the company would be very little with their pay scales,the harder part would be getting his pilots to agree to it.
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It would actually be very expensive to do. Keep in mind, if you give longevity you are also giving 401k matching, vacation and sick time accrual rates.

Back in 2007 (or maybe 2008), prior to the current FFD workgroup, PSA's MEC spearheaded an effort, that eventually led to USEPA, to try to limit the whipsawing of aircraft back and forth. At the time we were watching CMR tails get placed at ASA and Skywest for Delta flying. In order to prevent something like that from happening within the USAirways system the goal was to work with the US Express Carriers to a) harmonize the contracts so that, longevity aside, it would cost the same to operate an aircraft at any of the properties and b) work on seniority portability so that a pilot group would migrate with their planes, keeping longevity and possibly seniority. While everybody at the meetings was interested in the first part, we pretty much got laughed out of the room (including by the Eagle MEC who was at one of the meetings) for even bringing up the second part. It ended up costing the MEC Chairman his position because it was spun that he was trying to give Mesa pilots left seats at PSA.

Interesting how things change over time.
 
DE727UPS said:
If you have a problem with how the site is run. Best take it to the site leadership/moderators. Lashing out at the forums will just get you laughed at. Haven't you noticed?
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I didn't see a report and I gotta hit the gym before I leave the hotel so the chances of forensic surgery to find whatever @Cherokee_Cruiser is talking about is pretty slim.
 
Gonzo said:
If he really cared he would he would try to negotiate an LOA with management that would allow Eagle pilots DOH for pay and line biding if they come over to work at PSA.
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I could see DOH for pay and benefits but line bidding? At that point it's almost a merger of seniority lists by DOH and very few pilots would agree to that. Maybe top priority ahead of anyone in the future new hire group for those airplanes but not current pilots.
 
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BobDDuck said:
It would actually be very expensive to do. Keep in mind, if you give longevity you are also giving 401k matching, vacation and sick time accrual rates.

Back in 2007 (or maybe 2008), prior to the current FFD workgroup, PSA's MEC spearheaded an effort, that eventually led to USEPA, to try to limit the whipsawing of aircraft back and forth. At the time we were watching CMR tails get placed at ASA and Skywest for Delta flying. In order to prevent something like that from happening within the USAirways system the goal was to work with the US Express Carriers to a) harmonize the contracts so that, longevity aside, it would cost the same to operate an aircraft at any of the properties and b) work on seniority portability so that a pilot group would migrate with their planes, keeping longevity and possibly seniority. While everybody at the meetings was interested in the first part, we pretty much got laughed out of the room (including by the Eagle MEC who was at one of the meetings) for even bringing up the second part. It ended up costing the MEC Chairman his position because it was spun that he was trying to give Mesa pilots left seats at PSA.

Interesting how things change over time.
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Wow! I wasn't aware of that!
 
Gonzo said:
The cost to the company would be very little with their pay scales,the harder part would be getting his pilots to agree to it.
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They don't care about any individual pilots - the point of this exercise is to lower the aggregate marginal cost per employee. My employer does exactly the same thing. Once we have a contract in place to staff 300 widgets (not airplanes), we look at how to shift widget operations to wholly owned subsidiaries or contractors with lower pay.

An air carrier can only sustain that model when it is growing though. 5 years from now, the same shell game will be attempted again, and it will likely work. Even if pilots voted with their feet at the growing but cheaper operation - that still lowers overall labor cost....
 
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