AA/USair

Derg said:
Actually, it's everyone's problem that has any level of career investment in this field. Those that don't, won't understand the psychological dynamics of what's taking place.

Think of the premise of "Ghostbusters II".
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I was speaking more of the hostility to Zap. Every business has stress and this one is no different - but making your "pissiness" the problem of Zap didn't seem to be an ideal response to me - and was particularly surprising from Firebird.
 
Appreciate it, but honestly it didn't bother me one bit. He and I tussle on here from time to time but I don't think there is any real disrespect between us. Just difference of opinion on some subjects that we both take personally. It's all good.
 
I'd say Zap has been dumped on in a most crap-tacular manner in this industry. He's pretty much walked several miles in those shoes.

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ZapBrannigan said:
Appreciate it, but honestly it didn't bother me one bit. He and I tussle on here from time to time but I don't think there is any real disrespect between us. Just difference of opinion on some subjects that we both take personally. It's all good.
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Well, in that case I will pee on you both. Out of respect.

Polar742 said:
I'd say Zap has been dumped on in a most crap-tacular manner in this industry. He's pretty much walked several miles in those shoes.

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That is what is funny about it. If the industry or company is making you feel anxious, hostile and willing to withhold your pee in case of spontaneous combustion on Zap's part....well, ZAP is the LAST guy anyone can bitch too. Whatever anyone's problems may be, Zap has probably been there ten-fold and so he would be the one person in the forum that could say "Oh yeah - don't bitch at me".
 
Nah. Lots of people have it way worse than me. Just talking to a buddy on Facebook who I worked with at USAir. After we were furloughed he went to work for Great Plains as a Captain on the D328. A few years later they went out of business and he ended up at Eagle.

Not long ago he finally upgraded... And now he is once again downgrading to FO... And facing uncertainty generated by USAir.

He wins the lousy aviation career award.
 
I've been really lucky so far.

No skill, just opportunity + quals + lots of luck.
 
Another friend who Polar knows worked for Chautauqua for ten years. Wanted desperately to go to the majors, but no luck. Went to USA 3000.

Furloughed from there and couldn't find work flying so he was throwing boxes for FedEx. His wife left him - so now he was geographically stuck so he could live near the kids.

Got hired 135 but didn't get along with the boss. Got hired for CommutAir but quit during training. Now, with over 10,000 hours he's a Captain at Gulfstream / Silver.

There are lots of victims of the gods of aviation misfortune if you just ask around.

Sorry to stray off topic again. This could probably have been split to its own thread.
 
ZapBrannigan said:
Another friend who Polar knows worked for Chautauqua for ten years. Wanted desperately to go to the majors, but no luck. Went to USA 3000.

Furloughed from there and couldn't find work flying so he was throwing boxes for FedEx. His wife left him - so now he was geographically stuck so he could live near the kids.

Got hired 135 but didn't get along with the boss. Got hired for CommutAir but quit during training. Now, with over 10,000 hours he's a Captain at Gulfstream / Silver.

There are lots of victims of the gods of aviation misfortune if you just ask around.

Sorry to stray off topic again. This could probably have been split to its own thread.
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That right there makes me question if I want to stay in this industry, and I've only been in it for 11 months!
 
In a metaphorical sense, I was absolutely serious about what I said to Zap. While my personal commitment to the preservation of life would require me to extinguish him were he actually on fire, any sense of value ends there.

His inability to consistently adhere to any value other than seizing the chance to kick any airline group (specifically 'scooter trash', as he once referred to RJ pilots) that he deems somehow less deserving is his only real trademark value.

Considering he's done nothing to contribute to this discussion beyond point out that former TWA pilots are somehow more deserving than Eagle pilots to see career enhancements because they used to be mainline just reinforces that point.

I might add that while many TWA pilots have yet to see opportunity at AMR, many have, at the expense of Eagle pilots, at that. In addition, they've sat and bitterly protested legal due process as the complicated fall out of Letter 3 unfolded. Somehow it's just not fair! Many have enjoyed profit, security, and Super Seniority for years at the expense of the Eagle pilot group.

So excuse me if I'm sick of it. Due process for any potential recall and/or advancement to AA has been. Clearly defined from the most senior AA pilot down to the the former TWA pilots on furlough to the most junior Eagle pilot hired as of October of last year.

Given the APA's history of leaving Eagle pilots with our collective asses in the wind any chance they get, it's largely a given we're alone in this.

You'll have to forgive us if that leaves many of us in a fighting mood.
 
Firebird2XC said:
His inability to consistently adhere to any value other than seizing the chance to kick any airline group (specifically 'scooter trash', as he once referred to RJ pilots) that he deems somehow less deserving is his only real trademark value.
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I honestly don't remember the conversation in which I used the words "scooter trash" but I'm relatively sure it was meant in jest or as a term of endearment since, the vast majority of my career has been spent driving scooters (some might even classify the J31 as a moped...) and, in fact, my current scooter is much smaller than your scooter.

Maybe you should relax a bit and embrace your scooter lineage. You know what they say... they're lots of fun as long as your friends don't see you on one. :)
 
ZapBrannigan said:
I honestly don't remember the conversation in which I used the words "scooter trash" but I'm relatively sure it was meant in jest or as a term of endearment since, the vast majority of my career has been spent driving scooters (some might even classify the J31 as a moped...) and, in fact, my current scooter is much smaller than your scooter.

Maybe you should relax a bit and embrace your scooter lineage. You know what they say... they're lots of fun as long as your friends don't see you on one. :)
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I'm nothing but proud of my time as an Eagle pilot.

I'm equally proud of my stance here. Your supposed makeover as a socially palatable nice guy doesn't fool me. It actually fits your usual MO. Defend whatever position creates the least resistance.

Manipulative behavior is a hallmark of low self esteem.
 
gtpilot said:
I hate that I'm quoting a book geared at female teenagers, but:

'You just remember who the enemy is." -Haymitch
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The enemy is anybody hanging to an irrelevant past and supposedly deserved entitlements that are neither substantiated or legally actionable.

And The Hunger Games isn't marketed primarily to female teenagers. You could say that about Twilight, but The Hunger Games trilogy is one of the most brilliant parables about the dangers of hubris, entitlement at the expense of others, war, and human suffering I've ever read.

Young women are drawn to the strong yet conflicted female lead of Katniss, but those looking for more won't be disappointed.
 
Ok internet angry guy. You win. :rolleyes: Back to your regularly scheduled on-topic conversation...
 
I stand by my original assertion: Ex-TWA guys should be the top of the heap - over AA guys, over Eagle guys, over East and West USAir guys, etc. And the airline should be renamed TWA. And KC and all the rest.

Seriously - Firebird - I don't get the attacks on Zap - but as angry and angst-ridden as this process is making you feel - Imagine the TWA guys when all that went down. They made the mistake of going to work with an airline that would go broke in the future - like you. They had their career placed in jeapordy of shambles - like you. Unlike you, they had ALPA and the APA screwing them (I believe you only have the APA trying that) - and it looks like AMR people are getting a significantly better deal than AMR doled out to TWA. Seriously - it may not turn out all that badly for you guys. On the other hand - it may. But either way, Zap isn't the decider of this.
 
Zap is a saint here. I wish I could do more for you. Zap, I'd tell you this, you got a decent gig at the moment. Maybe not the end all be all and I certainly don't know the details of your life situation. But you could certainly being doing much worse in the profession in this day and age.

If I were attacking folks like Zap at a site like this, I'd kinda think twice about karma and the whole small world thing.
 
DE727UPS said:
Zap, I'd tell you this, you got a decent gig at the moment..
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Yup. No complaints here. Always want to be prepared in case the fecal matter hits the recirc fan, but if this one lasted until retirement I'd be thrilled.
 
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