AA/US-AW. Now the fun begins.

Nark said:
I'm sorry gents, and yes @ATN_Pilot I'm extremely junior. Like single digits from the bottom of the list.
With that said, no one forced a gun to my head to come here.

No one forced a gun to anyone's head at Air Tran, Northwest, America West...

You make your bed, you lie in it. Some people win the career lottery, some people get a poop sandwich.

DOH is the only true, unbiased way to intergrate a seniority list.
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It's the only true, biased way to integrate a seniority list. Actually I guess a staple is worse. Other than that, DOH ranks up there too.
 
How is it biased? It affects each pilot individually. Not as a group (ie TWA staple).
We have choices in life.
I made a choice in 2004 to join the military, instead of the regional rat race.
I also chose to continue logging 121 SIC instead of waiting a few more months to log PIC.

Let us feed the rumor mill a bit and play make believe:
My company is hiring like mad, 24 dudes (and girls, because they can fly too)/month.
A furry animal loving airline is also hiring, but not as aggressively.
In a years time, my relative seniority will be higher than a comparable dude at Furrytail Intl. (This is a very safe assumption). When we merge, and both having ORD bases, making an ISL based entirely on DOH is perfectly fine. My relative seniority goes down, theirs goes up and I have no issue with that, because I chose to come here at taxicab Intl.

But, but, but you don't have widebodies! But nothing. If I want to fly widebodies, avian, I'll apply somewhere else and fly widebodies.
 
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Cherokee_Cruiser said:
Unfortunately when my time comes, it will be SFO from EWR. Not that I want to do it, but by then I'll have ~ 12k hours and zero TPIC. At some point, you gotta get that on the resume. So as much as I hate to say it, my first upgrade opportunity will be a transcon commute to reserve CA. Of course I'll leave NYC CA as #1 always.
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I dunno. I'd say that A320 type rating with time in type, even if it is SIC, might trump TPIC time. I'm not so sure I'd be in a rush just to get TPIC time on the resume in case of a bad merger/VA disaster. First, I don't think VA is going anywhere fast. Second, I don't think you'd have a problem getting on with another major with actual experience at a major and the A320. I think even SWA is dropping their TPIC requirement now, and they're the ones that more or less started the whole thing. I wouldn't be in a rush to ruin my QoL just for a resume builder.
 
The problem comes in when furloughs come along (and they always do). You can't base that decision on what hiring minimums are now. Look at what they were during the last industry downturn. Derg got lucky and didn't get furloughed. Lots of guys like him who had no PIC time did get furloughed, though, and they were stuck going to regionals while the guys with PIC time went to JetBlue, AirTran, Spirit, and Southwest. PIC time will always be valued, and for good reason.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
The problem comes in when furloughs come along (and they always do). You can't base that decision on what hiring minimums are now. Look at what they were during the last industry downturn. Derg got lucky and didn't get furloughed. Lots of guys like him who had no PIC time did get furloughed, though, and they were stuck going to regionals while the guys with PIC time went to JetBlue, AirTran, Spirit, and Southwest. PIC time will always be valued, and for good reason.
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I see what you're saying, but IMO, assuming there is another downturn, I don't think it'll be anything like what we saw after 9/11. For example, I think a guy with A320 experience is gonna get the call to a major more than a guy with 1000 CRJ TPIC. I could be completely wrong (and I'm also talking from a position where I'm sitting on about 3000 TPIC myself),

Also, on the "upgrade is never a bad idea" subject, we've got a handful of guys here bidding BACK to the right seat simply because being on reserve in the left seat for 4-5 years commuting is wearing them thin. I don't personally want to be in that boat. The most I'd probably do right now is make the drive to FLL for reserve. Commuting to reserve to waste my life away in Kew Gardens to occasionally get a red eye to the islands doesn't really appeal to me. Doing that for 4-5 years would make me a miserable person.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
The problem comes in when furloughs come along (and they always do). You can't base that decision on what hiring minimums are now. Look at what they were during the last industry downturn. Derg got lucky and didn't get furloughed. Lots of guys like him who had no PIC time did get furloughed, though, and they were stuck going to regionals while the guys with PIC time went to JetBlue, AirTran, Spirit, and Southwest. PIC time will always be valued, and for good reason.
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Why didn't doug get furloughed?
Was its because of his DOH?

And that is my point.
The world owes you nothing, just because your seniority number is 1.
 
ATN_Pilot said:
I don't know where you're getting this stupid idea that "fair and equitable" equals "world owes you something."

Drop it. You don't have a clue what you're talking about, and other people's seniority is not yours to give away.
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Im curious as to why you didn't acknowledge my point about furlough, which is based upon DOH, and nothing to do with "fair and equitable?"
 
My point, just like @Flying Saluki 's is to establish a DOH across the board. Every airline, every merger.

How is it fair that I have more certificates and hours then someone who gets hired at Delta straight out of the military?
It isn't, and I'm not asking for it to be fair. Life isn't fair, deal with it.

Pilots need to stop being a gimme, gimme I'm special because ...
You aren't.

Much to my dismay, I work for an airline that's represented by ALPA. I don't work for ALPA that happens to fly for an airline.
 
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