A rant about my fellow airline passengers

Okay, here's my take on it: non-reving dress codes for the airlines I worked for: SWA, anything except for offensive t-shirts, etc was good. Xjet - business casual preferred (ESSENTIAL if you wanted first class), or nice jeans and a polo. Now, as a non-rev, representing your company is a moot point. How am I supposed to represent my company if I'm not supposed to tell the people around me that I'm non-revving. Pulling the whole "I fly for free" to impress the girl in seat 29A will get your non-rev priveleges yanked at SWA.

About people dressing up: Emily hit it on the head. No one dresses up to go out to dinner, to the movies, etc. Olive Garden would go under quickly (or at least shrink a LOT) if they went from casual dining (where they allow shorts and flip flops) to a formal setting. Heck, even a lot of the formal places I've been to allow dressed down attire like shorts and tennis shoes now. I think the last time I saw some one dressed up to go to the movies was IN a movie. What do these have in common with air travel? Once upon a time all were big EVENTS. Now, they are about as common place as potato chips. The day people start dressing up for flying again is the day it stops becoming a means of getting from point A to point B and becomes a momentous occasion. Right now, it's a means of travel. Personally, if I'm gonna be stuck in a cabin for 3-4 hours, I'm gonna be comfortable. That doesn't mean I wear pajamas, but if wearing shorts means that I'm somehow "disrespecting" myself, then maybe I slipped into some alternate reality.

Lloyd's also got a point. Right now, leisure travellers riding the "Greyhound of the Skies" are keeping the industry afloat. There's too much hassle in airline flying for the business travellers that USED to be the bread and butter. They'll either charter to get around the headaches or just do a teleconference from the office. Not as many frequent flier miles, but they're home in time for dinner. You start imposing a dress code or talking down to the "riff raff," and more than just United, US Air and Delta are gonna be in serious trouble.
 
Well, I haven't read the whole thread, but personally I'm only afforded the chance to fly on the airlines on one, maybe two trips per year. I can't say that I've ever had an experience that was bad ... maybe I'm just bad at finding things to complain about. I can't say that's something I'm not proud of though.
 
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And it's not the dress, it's the behavior. Would it kill some pax to shower? Or to not chomp their gum so loudly that I can hear it over the airplane noise? Or to not take a seat that isn't theirs?

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Absolutely!

A lot of it is common sense, you know, shower daily, dress in clean clothes, etc. Be considerate to the people around you and have quiet conversations, etc.

I pray that the ban on cell phones in the air continues to remain. The last thing I need on the plane home after a long biz trip is to hear about how Katie, kissed Tom, and now Shelly is totally pissed...no, I mean TOTALLY PISSED (yelled as loudly as possible).

Cell phones are great, but man I hate those damned things. My wife used to have this habit of immediately getting on the phone when we got in the car to go to dinner. She even used to continue the conversation at the table once we were seated. I put a stop to that. I mean come on. Where does it end? I think they should building Farday cages into the cabin of airliners to block the signals from getting in. A thin brass mesh in the wall is all you need. Leave the cockpit unsheilded and everything will be peachy.

Oh boy am I looking forward to the trip home on Saturday.

Naunga
 
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There's too much hassle in airline flying for the business travellers that USED to be the bread and butter.

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Could the Air Greyhound types be part of that hassle? Trust me man. Watch the business travellers some day as they're going through the security lines and the Air Greyhound types are holding up the line.

It would be sweet to be able to charter a plane when travelling for business, but that ain't gonna happen.

I'll stand by my statement. If you've got 80 percent loads, you've got some room to raise prices. Jack up the price by ten percent, your loads drop to 65-70 percent, and guess what you probably do? Make money on the 70 percent loads as opposed to losing it on the 80 percent loads!

It has the added benefit of driving away some of the people who make that business traveller get steamed when he's waiting for some efftard to take his freaking keys out of his pocket before he goes through the security line.
 
Dude...relax.

The amateur psychologist in me says someone who responds that strongly to an internet post has got a couple of unresolved issues
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Look, it's not what you wear. It really isn't. It's things like: did you bother to change out of your PJ's before you went to the airport? did you take a shower today? Do your clothes fit with where or what you're doing? That's all.

Situational awareness is not just a concept for flying. It's things like wearing a suit to a job interview or a wedding, but not to go scuba diving in.

And when I talk about self respect, I'm referring to you (generic) considering what kind of image you're projecting about yourself. You want to be a make-up wearing goth, fine. Appearances are nothing when you're talking about personality and depth, but it contributes greatly to first impressions and the initial decision a person makes to either approach you and get to know you better or not. Shallow? Unfair? Sure, but fact. People have eyes to see and have some sense of what they find asthetically pleasing. Face, legs, smile, eyes, clothes, butt, breasts everyone has a standard.

And no matter how strenously you may object to that it's a fact. We walk around all day long making judgement calls about the people we see around us. That guy is wearing a suit and a tie, he must be a tool. How can that guy stand to be with that dog of a girl? There's a stinky homeless guy walking behind me I hope he doesn't mug me.

Naunga thinks that people should dress presentably when flying and out in public, he's a corporate stuff shirt and there's nothing unique about him (and chill, I know you're not saying that).

In short, yes if you choose to present yourself to the world as a unkept, unhygenic, blob of flesh then yes I think you're not respecting yourself.

So John, keep on keepin' on, relax...and get those issues resolved man
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Peace.

Naunga
 
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... like every other cookie cutter wanna be out there.

...I'm the one out there doing MY thing...

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If the majority of people are "doing their own thing," wouldn't that make THEM cookie cutters, and the handfull of people dressing "nice" would be the people being ORIGINAL?

Call me old school if you want, but there is a way to dress is certain environments. You don't wear a Tux to the beach and you down wear you're bathing suit to the opera.
 
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No one dresses up to go out to dinner, to the movies, etc. Olive Garden would go under quickly (or at least shrink a LOT) if they went from casual dining (where they allow shorts and flip flops) to a formal setting.

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True enough, but then again. If you're going to the bosses retirement party at the local 5-star steak house, you don't wear cut offs and a t-shirt...unless you hate the guy and your job.

While, Emily is right this isn't the '50's anymore, and nor do we want it to be, I think we're starting to see a bit of a cultural divide growing. There are people like me who, while we value individuality, we also know that there are virtues to making one's self look presentable, and maybe even going a notch above presentable. Sometimes it's not even about doing to for yourself. I personally hate dressing up. I've never been a suit and tie person. Give me a nice pair of jeans and a button down, and I'm happy, however, my wife loves me in a suit and tie. So when the occasion warrents and sometimes doesn't, I'll dress to the nines for her. It makes me feel good to make her happy, and it's easy. I know if I want to really impress her (and yes after 6 years of marriage I still try to impress my wife) all I need to do is get a haircut, shave, and put on a tie. It's kind of like the feeling I get after a good run. I feel good knowing that I did something that is good for me.

Then there are people on the other side who say, do what you want, wear what you want, etc. Sort of living by the 'if it feels good do it' motto. Which is fine, but it tends to create a population of people who could careless about each other. Of course the upside of this attitude is that there are people who get a charge out of helping people, so it may all balance out.

That's self respect to me. It's taking care of one's self, so that you're healthy and happy. It's little things like realizing, esspecially in a committed relationship, that it's unfair of you to let yourself go, because you've already snagged your mate. Maybe I'm going off on a tangent here, but like I said I still work to impress my wife, because she's worth it. Having the attitude of well we're married and you have to love me, be attracted to me whatever, whether I'm 180 and ripped, or 250 and sit around in my underwear all day watching TV. It's even more unfair for me to tell myself that she needs to get into shape to keep me, when I don't do the same.

One thing I'll just throw out: self respect also means being educated. Being literate, reading an occasional book, taking an interest in current events, etc. There's very little of that going on nowadays as well.

Anyhow, that's my two cents on this reply.

Naunga
 
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... like every other cookie cutter wanna be out there.

...I'm the one out there doing MY thing...

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If the majority of people are "doing their own thing," wouldn't that make THEM cookie cutters, and the handfull of people dressing "nice" would be the people being ORIGINAL?

Call me old school if you want, but there is a way to dress is certain environments. You don't wear a Tux to the beach and you down wear you're bathing suit to the opera.

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Yeah, what's the line from the Incredibles? Something like saying everyone is special is just another way of saying no one is.

Naunga
 
This is getting heated!

I too come from the days of non-rev on NWA where women were required to wear dress slacks or skirts with nylons (they would not let you on with out the nylons if you wore a skirt). Anyway, at the time I always felt like that was a bit over kill. I can see looking "respectable" as you are a rep. for the company, but some of the requirements were a little much.

What’s acceptable in society now is very different from what was acceptable 30 yrs. ago. One thing that I am getting tired of (I had to do it again yesterday) is having to pull students out of class (I work in a college) and tell them that they must go home and take a shower because they are making other students and faculty sick. And believe me...these people have the money to take care of themselves! Or when I have to 'counsel' a student that was just caught yelling totally inappropriate things to the women across the street. These people are all over the age of 20!!!

I guess all I'm saying is no matter what you look like (because I don't care what you wear) I just wish people were more respectful of their fellow human beings in general.
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Again, sorry for coming off so strongly but I take this fight to everyone that I run into (if we meet you'll probably realize it real quickly) that says anything about how someone dresses shows how they have respect for themselves or not.

I'm not talking about hygine, I'm talking about clothes and whatnot (add with that piercings, tattoo's, hair, or whatever other things people get judged by). You're right that people do it, I'm telling you that it's wrong. I'm not telling you that it happens or dosen't, it obviously does and I think we've all been on the recieving end of it in one way or another before. I'm just telling you that it's flat out wrong and in a lot of ways inaccurate. I'm talking about ethics and judgement and whether it is warrented in a universal sense. I.E. You shouldn't make judgements about people, at all, about how they dress. Again, not saying that you don't; I'm saying that you shouldn't.
 
No problem, dude.

And there is a huge difference between using one's judgement, and judging someone. If people use judgement then we'd have VFR pilots flying in IFR conditions everywhere, we'd talk to every single person we had the urge to talk to, we'd tell our wives that, "yes that dress does make you look fat". We'd run up to gang bangers (as white guys) and say, "yo my n***er what's up?".

IMHO judging people is saying, "I'm too good to deal with them" or "Ugh, I'd never be friends with a redneck like him" based only on a superficial impression. I understand what you're saying, you're talking to a guy who'd still have a pierced eye-brow had it not gotten infected etc. I got judged. I got the dirty looks, the stares from children (sometimes terrified looks from children...those were too much fun). My wife too (we got 'em on our honeymoon...awwww, what a couple of saps we were / are).

But it's fine line to walk, because at best we use our judgement to say, "that homeless guy may be a really neat person, but I'm not gonna talk to him, he stinks", and at worst we use our judgement to say, "I don't like blondes".

The Zen thing to do is realize that every time we look at a person we judge them on some level, acknowledge the judgement, and then let it go so that it does no influence us further.

We should also realize that judgements in and of themselves are not good or bad, they just are. It is how we react to them that matters. Even having a strong negative reaction against people who judge isn't healthy.

And just to be a pain in the ass: isn't judging people who judge as being negative hypocritical? Man logic is a bitch ain't it.
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The reality is that we all judge, and some of those judgements are made for good reason. We choose which political party to support based on how we judge the fit between their platform and our values. Men judge women based on our own personal criteria (leg man, breast man), women judge men on their criteria (tall, short, good job, well dressed). It's a fact of life for anyone who has eyes. Even if we were all blind and had to have an actual conversation with someone to know what they "looked like", and of course since everyone is blind we'd have to describe ourselves in terms of things like I'm a man, I like to listen to jazz, I like to eat chocolate, I'm a Jew, etc.. So the understanding of someone's personality would be much deeper since we wouldn't focus on physical appearance. The thing is, however, what do you reveal about yourself on the first date? Just like most people don't drop their pants on the first date (I said most people), most people in blind world aren't going to tell you their heart's desires on the first date. Do you tell your date that you spent time in a mental hospital? That you had gay sex? That you are missing an arm? Do you go into religious philosiphy? And so on. Even after dating for months, most people probably have had sex with their partner, before they knew them on a truly intimate level. We so closely guard our personalities that it may take years, before we're comfortable enough to tell our partners about the time we got our hearts broken in high school, or how we used to have a huge crush on the TV weather man.

In the end the initial impression would still be as superficial, and we'd still judge people based on this superfiscial information. We'd say things like, "I could never be with someone who hates John Coltrain" or "Man she'd be great, except she has an annoying voice."

We, and I must say mostly young(er) people get very hung up on the fact that people judge other people based on superficial information, but it's a fact of life and we'll never be rid of it. I've never met anyone who didn't judge people about something. You'll always drive too fast for someone's tastes, not be neat enough, be too neat, wear colors someone doesn't like, and you'll always judge someone else about something. Always.

The only way to be completely free of judgement is to never have an opinion about anything, because that's where our judgements arise from. If you value neatness, then you'll judge slobs. Even if it's an innoculous judgement like, "Well that's cool if he likes living that way, but it's not for me." How do you know that you would be unhappy as a slob? How do you know he'd be unhappy living in a neat house? To use the venacular, where do you get off judging that being a slob isn't for you? Have you ever been a slob? Man you're so narrow. If you can be completely ambivalent then maybe you'll come close to being a truely non-judgemental person, but that's tough. Jesus, Buddha, Ghandi, Dr. Martin Luther King Jr., and even Mother Theresa had opinions about things, and therefore made judgements about people.

I've nowhere near the spiritual fortitude that these folks had, so for me to harsh someone's gig for judging is not even an option. Like they say, let he who is without sin throw the first stone.

Sucks to be human man, but last time I checked we couldn't turn into cats (which would rock, because cats have it so freakin' easy).

Peace.

Naunga
 
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Sucks to be human man, but last time I checked we couldn't turn into cats (which would rock, because cats have it so freakin' easy).

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They do. Eat, sleep, play, poop. That's pretty much it.

But cats judge, too. They will be nice to some people and nasty to others, and there's no real reason for it other than they like someone and don't like someone else.
 
In portland at a store there was a very long line to pay for my food. Behind the counter there was this degenerate working, very slowly of course. So i put the stuff back and left because the degenerate was lazy and I didn't want to wait a long time. So how you look while you are working can affect a business.

portland seems to be full of these degenerate types...
 
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So how you look while you are working can affect a business.

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Well wait. I thought you left, because he was slow not because of how he looked?

So if the guy had been in a suit and as slow as the guy you dealt with would you have left or stayed in line?

Naunga
 
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So how you look while you are working can affect a business.

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Well wait. I thought you left, because he was slow not because of how he looked?

So if the guy had been in a suit and as slow as the guy you dealt with would you have left or stayed in line?

Naunga

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I think he meant the look of your speed (slow and lazy, or trying your hardest and going at a pretty good rate). That's how interpreted it, but overall I pretty much agree with you Naunga.
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Icelandair-- I know exactly what you mean. I don't waste my tme or money at a place that allows that kind of behavior or personal appearance. A blind man can see it a mile away: a slovenly, slow moving employee walking aroing with thier nose wrinkled and thier eyes rolling saunters to the counter and ejaculates at the next person in line, "Kinah hepyew!?" with an inflection that leaves absolutely no doubt that they have no aspirations of giving you any help or service at all, other thatn the absolute minimum that will allow them to keep thier jobs.

It boils down to personal respect: Confident, sucsessful, happy people almost invariably maintiain a standard of personal hygene and appearance. Wastes of skin who blame everyone but themselves for thier sorry lot in life don't. And, invariably, they make themselves and everyone around them miserable. That's why people will pay more to weed them out.

NOW-- that is not to say that there is one appearance or style that is proper and just and the rest are not. Ohhh no no no no: I would much rather sit next to a clean, well groomed, cool looking biker dude than a fat, slovenly business-suit type who is sweating through his wrinkled dress shirt. Moreover, there is a world of difference in a young dude just off of spring break wearing a pair of flops, some sunglasses, a t-shirt and a hangover, and some trailer trash wandering in in a dirty wife-beater stinking of Winstons.

So yeah, I judge by appearance. Just not by style.
 
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I can't stand the people who bother you when deadheading!!! I was on a Delta mainline flight back to Atlanta the other day, (after having worked 16 hours the day before and another 13 that day) and this passenger felt the need to ask me everything about what was happening. Normally I wouldn't mind and would answer whatever questions they had, but I was sleeping! Not just napping, but sleeping. I had a sweatshirt I was using as a pillow, blanket on, lights off, eyes closed and even had earplugs in!!!! That's when the shoulder-tap and "excuse me..." came. I couldn't believe it!
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Note to passengers...if you see a pilot sleeping on an airplane, let him sleep. Trust me, he's probably exhausted and has to do it all again tomorrow or later that same day.

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I hate people.
 
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True enough, but then again. If you're going to the bosses retirement party at the local 5-star steak house, you don't wear cut offs and a t-shirt...unless you hate the guy and your job.

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I agree with you here. You have to dress to the occasion, however flying on an airliner is not the same as a business casual dinner. Far from it. The perception is TOTALLY different. Showering a personal hygene are definate musts, but thinking a person is part of the dregs of humanity because they get on an airplane in shorts and flip flops is a bit much. What you (and sometimes I) see as a big deal is nothing but a means to get from one place to another to them. It's like asking them to throw on slacks and a polo to go to the grocery store.

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One thing I'll just throw out: self respect also means being educated. Being literate, reading an occasional book, taking an interest in current events, etc. There's very little of that going on nowadays as well.

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For the most part, I'd say a good portion of the people who are illiterate genuinely want to improve themselves. In the realm of "being educated," there's a lot of room for perception differences there. Take a look at some families that have never had anyone even graduate high school. That first person to do so may have a HUGE amount of self respect because he did something no one else in his family had accomplished for one reason or another. Is it right for us to say "he's got no self respect" because he didn't go to college? Neither of my parents went to college and they really don't keep up on current events. However, they have a huge amount of self respect along with a sense of pride that often gets in the way. I agree that the overall education in the country is going downhill, but I think it's WAY off base to suggest that someone has little self respect because they can't carry on a high brow conversation or they're illiterate. That's a sweeping generalization, and there's also too much of that in the country as well.
 
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