A positive perspective of the Aviator

[Queboat]

A lot of what has been said here is true. I can think of many positive things about Aviator. There are people, James, Mary, Pierre, Cindy and all of the instructors who will do there best to help you through your training. These are the people who realy manage Aviator. Without them the wheels would fall off the Aviator wagon.

However there are a few things that I just can't agree with on this thread. I don't like posting anything negative but it seems I'm the only one prepared to give a different perspective of Aviator. Before I came to this school I read the Ariben forum on JC and things seemed to be all sweetness and light. I wish someone had the guts to give a different perspective and help me make an informed choice. Some of what Aviator_Instructor says is true but I just can't agree with some things.



So, who was the last person to complete the course in six months including instructor ratings? Can you name a couple of the twenty current instructors that completed the course in this time? As for completing on budget that is hard, mainly because of the extra months that the course WILL take. Also, greedy MC has banned us from flying out the commercial requirements with a MEI timebuilder. One of my buddies spent an extra thousand bucks to do "training" that could have been done for no extra cost. He can thank MC for this. As for the instructor ratings, read my post on the instructor ratings thread. I would say it takes the average Aviator student an extra $6000 (due to extra living costs) and 9-12 months to complete the pro course. Do not come here expecting to finish on time and budget. If you want to get done fast and cheap go to ATP.



I visited ATP last week. The aircraft are not 2004 Seminoles; in fact most were 1970's vintage, just like the Duchesses, renting for similar money. The ATP Semionoles were all in excellent condition with a standard avionics fit. The paint wasn't falling off 5090M style and they were not soaked in oil. If the plane isn't safe I ain't goin' but sometimes Aviator machines have broken in the air in a big way on me and my friends! It's always a good flight when you land with two working engines and a radio. ATP have far better MX and much nicer aircraft.



Dude, you're an instructor; you should know the regs, but I don't think you do! My instructor told me that to be airworthy the aircraft has to comply with its type certificate and type design. If an ADF is fitted and it's bust then the aircraft is not airworthy unless it's placarded inop. As for repairing the ADF at the 100 hour; hahahahaha, doesn't happen! We all know that the ADF's in 30K, 36M, 78D, 38D, 44T and others have been inop for a long time. Are they placarded inop? Perhaps Aviator Instructor might get the chance to explain to the Feds his version of the regs during a ramp check. Flying the aircraft like this is not strictly legal, no matter what MC and Ed will tell you.



Well I would like to leave and I sure am working on it. It's not like choosing between NBC and ABC though. Once you are part way through training you are heavily commited. If I moved to ATP I would probably never be hired by them unless I complete the full course. To some extent I have to make a stand. Once I have the ratings I'm working on and there is no money left in my account though, goodbye.



This is not what he told me! He told me that I would be done in six months if I worked hard. Well Mike, I have worked hard and so have many other people. Where are our ratings? I also believed that the aircraft would be in better condition. The ad in AOPA pilot said that they do have all the bells and whistles. WX radar, GPS on all and coupled autopilots. In reality you are lucky if the aircraft is airworthy; coupled AP's are an MC fantasy. And what is he telling people in his advertising now. Well, it seems that Mike is offering placement assistance with ASA and Sky West. Can anyone name one instructor who has been placed with these airlines? This is shameless lie and I am tempted to report Aviator to AOPA for false advertising.

Sorry to be negative again but I'm just speaking for the dozens of frustrated Aviators out there wanting to get done and get gone.

Florida_Flyer you are XXXXXXXXXX you wouldn't last 10 minutes in the real world. quit whining

1st- you must be an ohh so joy to fly with. Bit of Advice to you. Personality will take you further in Aviation than any amount of flight time. I would know I left the aviator to fly a lear 55 with 800 hours.I charmed my way into a jet. I should've be a lawyer.

2nd- I see you lack the man power to endure a career in aviation. If you couldn't "survive" the aviator you should just hang it up right now.

3rd-Mike Cohen is a big teddy bear compared to any 135 chief pilot barking in your ear like a god damn drill sergant while your HAND flying (dont worry about no stinking autopilot)his $10 million jet when your off GS 1/4 dot. Forget about being a freigt dog, you'd get eaten alive.

4th- I could name a few people that finished the pro course in less than 6 months. These people studied, I mean all day every day. Ask around about a colombian guy named Hernan. He did the pro course on summer break between semesters at college. Me, I did it in nine with a 1 month and a 2 month break mixed in. You do the math. By the way I was under on my account when I finished. Imagine that I spent less than 25k to get all my ratings at the Aviator.

 

[derg]

I had the edit the above post.

This is a friendly website, not a "lemme curse and show everyone how big my manhood is" site.

Be respectful. If you can't do that, I can suggest some other sites you may be interested in.

 

[Queboat]

I had the edit the above post.

This is a friendly website, not a "lemme curse and show everyone how big my manhood is" site.

Be respectful. If you can't do that, I can suggest some other sites you may be interested in.

okay Doug i'll play nice. just trying to give this guy a little bit of the real world.

 

[derg]

Thanks bro! Carry on, soldier...

 

[Kristie]

I had the edit the above post.

This is a friendly website, not a "lemme curse and show everyone how big my manhood is" site.

Be respectful. If you can't do that, I can suggest some other sites you may be interested in.

yea.. cuz remember.. if it gets down and dirty then we have to move it or get rid of it and we hate doing that!!

*lots of youngin's peruse the site, we like it PG-13.

 

[Gonzo]

Let me start off by saying I do not attend aviator nor do I plan to attend aviator. Not because I do not like the school. I have decided to stay at the FBO that I am flying at presently. My CFI and I have put together a training schedule that will get me down in about seven to 10 months. When I went down there I spent a whole day looking around. I figure if I'm going to spend that much money I might as well make sure that it's the right school for me.

As far as addressing the concern that all the post on this board are putting aviator and a positive light. When I toured the school I met many instructors and students. All of them were drinking the (self-made) Kool-Aid. Every question I asked them pretty much had the same two answers. The answer to every question was either multitime or getting to a jet quicker.

The second part of my tour of was conducted by Mike. Let me start off by saying Mike impressed me a lot. As someone who has worked in business banking for four years I've gotten pretty good at reading a Businessman. Through my discussion with Mike he a much answered all the questions that have been asked in these forums. He will tell you that the planes are old and not all the electronics work on them but they are air worthy. He will tell you he's cheap and that is a reason why he only reimburses you fuel up to the price that he pays for it. He would tell you his instructors aren't paid much but then show you stack of résumés. He told me he is partially to blame for some of the students taking so long to complete the course. Overall I found Mike to be a very blunt and straightforward guy.

Florida Flyer I don't think Mike is mad at you for what you said because he just about told me everything that you've said. He's mad because you've(and many others on this board) have made personal attacks on him. Say what you want to say about the school and the planes but you should never make it personal with Mike.

As far as Doug censoring things for Mike I will leave you with this. I asked Mike about a certain thread posted a good while ago on this web site that did not put aviator in a good light. He told me everything in that thread was true. He even told me he could probably call Doug and have the thread removed but that would be doing a disservice to Doug and anyone else reading the forum.

 

[Luftpost]

I left "The Aviator" nearly 2 years ago for a right seat in a Beechjet (now left), with less than 1000 hours. This at a time when the hiring market was in a serious slump. I was led to the Aviator through this site and other posters.

At that time, people were much more helpful and constructive in giving people information and experiences about this school and others. Boy have times changed. I have never seen so much whining in my life before on this board (well maybe the Pan Am site).

I, like QBoat, was very productive with my time there. Any delays were a result of my own doing. I did get through it in 6 months though and on budget (even with some personal Cessna rental $$/time).

Most of the people I went to school with at that time were dedicated to their studies and students. Sure, not all of them, but they get weeded out, as has been evident here on this site by some of its now defunct posters.

Aviation can be a very rewarding career, as I have personally witnessed. In most cases though, you cannot expect to be spoonfed, which is also the case at the Aviator, as it should be.

My perspective of those regulars that are whining about MC or the school, well, that's just it. It's only whining, and they want sympathy or some control over others decision making. I think a few bad apples have passed through. In time, they will be forgotten. Remeber that people are always more anxious to voice a negative than a positive. That is the nature of people (myself included).

To those looking into the school, do yourself a favor, and visit the school. Meet Mike, and listen to him. Do not base your decision from these threads. Talk to the students and instructor there. For those turned off by Mike brutal honesty, imagine what the other schools are not telling you!!

I recently had a trip to Boca, my partner and I drove up to see the school for the first time since I left. It was a great trip down memory lane.

Rant over,

L.