A letter to X Airlines, and ALL Regionals for that matter.

In other news, regional airlines are actively recruiting people by headhunting them whether they show interest or not.

But let's give concessions!! We're clearly not valuable!!!1!!1
 
That's my argument too. Adding a 9/11 fee of ~$5/ticket and there is very little complaint. You could raise fares by $1 per pilot per hour and radically change our lives.

I think a good ballpark figure for costs should be captain gets about $2 per seat per hour. F/O gets $1 per seat per hour. When looking at what it costs to buy a ticket, I don't think that would be that unreasonable.
...so you're saying I should take a pay cut so the jet can get a raise. Have you been talking to our SAPA guys?


AFIS LINK ACK
 
I didn't write it, don't shoot me.

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303296604577450581396602106

PJ-BH720A_MIDSE_G_20120606215401.jpg




Updated June 6, 2012 10:23 p.m. ET
On an airplane carrying 100 passengers, how many customers does it take, on average, to cover the cost of the flight?

The Middle Seat asked US Airways and consulting firm Oliver Wyman to crunch airline expenses down to the percentages that an individual passenger pays, taking a hard look at costs of running an airline. US Airways created a hypothetical flight of 100 passengers. Each one paid the average $146 fare for a domestic flight ($292 round-trip), plus $18 each in fees and add-ons, based on a year's worth of data ending March 31. The bottom line: There is very little wiggle room on the plane for profit.

Somebody on every flight helps cover crash insurance and compensation paid for bumped passengers or lost luggage. The person beside you on your next trip may be partly paying to repair baggage carts or to buy and maintain passenger oxygen and defibrillators.

"It's like a wristwatch. You only see the face and hands, but all the parts inside are really necessary," said former airline chief executive Gordon Bethune. "Those bags don't get downstairs by themselves. All those things that move bags have to be purchased and then they break. It never stops."

Fuel now is by far the biggest cost for airlines—greater than even airline salaries. On that 100-passenger US Airways flight, the tickets and fees of 29 people pay just for the fuel to make the trip. (Salaries are the second-highest cost, with 20 passengers covering personnel paychecks.)

Oliver Wyman's research pegs fuel costs at an even bigger percentage of costs for the airline industry as a whole. Bigger carriers with longer flights tend to spend a bigger portion of their money at the fuel pump. The industry spent more than 34% of its revenue on fuel—it takes the fares of more than one-third of passengers on a flight, on average, to pay for the gas.

Airline gas mileage has improved over the years, the result of filling more seats on each flight, replacing multiple trips on small planes with fewer trips on larger aircraft and replacing older planes with newer, more fuel-efficient jets. In 2000, U.S. airlines burned 28.6 gallons of jet fuel per passenger, according to the Bureau of Transportation Statistics. Last year, that improved to 22.5 gallons per passenger. The industry is using less fuel but carrying more passengers. But the fuel bill tripled—airlines spent $32 billion more on fuel in 2011 than in 2000.

After fuel and salaries come ownership costs—buying and leasing planes. That includes the cost of spare engines and insuring planes in case of accidents. In the hypothetical 100-passenger flight, 16 people cover these costs.

Another 14 passengers cover the collective federal taxes paid by passengers, US Airways calculated. That money helps fund the Federal Aviation Administration, plus the Sept. 11 security fees that cover much of the cost of Transportation Security Administration screening, and facility charges that most airports add to tickets. Fuel taxes paid by airlines are counted with other fuel costs. In the end, passengers pay more in government taxes and fees than they do for baggage fees and other add-ons.

Total maintenance costs equal 11 passengers on the plane of 100, according to US Airways, which built its own repair shop in Philadelphia just for the trucks, baggage carts and the tugs that haul them. That is a tiny part of all the airline's maintenance responsibilities. Planes' parts often break. Every few months they undergo routine maintenance. Every few years more intensive maintenance is performed. And once every five or six years planes literally get taken apart and put back together.

Cost of 'Free' Soft Drinks
Nine passengers cover the "other" category—everything from catering (the soft drink you get free on most, but not all, carriers) to compensating passengers for bumping them from flights and paying to deliver or replace lost baggage. Food costs—mostly for first-class meals—add up to less than 2% of airline costs, according to Oliver Wyman's research. Rental fees for airport gates and ticket counters also factor into the big "other" category. So do regular business things like advertising and legal fees.

Landing fees eat up more than 2% of airline revenue, according to Oliver Wyman, so that it takes two passengers out of 100 to cover the use of airport runways and taxiways. Airports charge airlines by the weight of the airplane.

With 99 passengers accounted for, what does that leave the airline in terms of profit? One passenger.

"It's not exactly one, but we rounded up," said Robert Isom, chief operating officer at US Airways Group Inc.

Airlines don't have some of the expenses of other industries. Research and development is virtually nonexistent—innovation tends to come from airplane makers, seat makers or other businesses that supply the carriers. While airlines have lots of inventory expense, it isn't like what Boeing Co. BA -0.10% or other manufacturers encounter.

The Weather Variable
But airline operating costs are off the charts compared with other industries. In a business where much of the work is done outside, routine storms can eat into margins. And there are many moving parts to flying people through the air, and many safety costs required by regulation.

While ticket revenue pays the bulk of these costs, "ancillary revenue" supplements the flight by another $18 per person on a 100-passenger flight. That includes fees for checked baggage, seat assignments, ticket penalties and revenue from cargo.

According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, baggage fees for the U.S. airline industry last year totaled a hefty $3.4 billion, or roughly $5 for every passenger boarded. Cancellation and change fees totaled $2.4 billion, or more than $3 for every passenger.

It's these myriad fees that can be most maddening to passengers—customers who now pay higher fares yet feel like they're getting less service. But these fees, in part, offset the expense of operating an airline.

"It's a crazy business," Mr. Bethune said. "There are so many costs you could never articulate it all."
This is such BS!

The average ticket price is about $370 round trip now. So their numbers are adjusted to make the airlines look like they barely scrape by!
http://www.cnn.com/2012/07/26/travel/high-air-fares/

Plus...these figures DO NOT include all the bag fees. This figure must be from southwest???
 
The thing is, are we comparing apples to apples? In the sense of I don't think we can compare mainlines to regionals, when regionals are essentially contractors/bidders to a mainline, with fixed costs/profits that don't really vary. All their eggs are pretty much in one basket, maybe two. But I don't see where regionals really have much in the way of flexibility in terms of making "their own" money. Or am I out to lunch here?

No, you are on point. There is no flexibility until they CREATE it. They have the flexibility to negotiate better contracts with Major Airline (1-3) now.

Here is the set-up. XXXXXX Regional Airline Mgmt is getting squeezed and bidding ZZZZZZ Regional Airline Mgmt to the ground. Both pilot groups were accepting this knowing that Major Airlines (1-9) at the time had small profit margins.

It's 2013, things are different! Past leverage majors had (were loosing money take the contract, make the pilot group take the concessions) isn't the case anymore. Major Airline (1-3) are making so much money that XXXXX-A and XXXXXX-B Regional Airlines don't need or squeeze themselves into the same coffin. I'm not calling for Collusion outright. But a COMMON SENSE understanding that Mr. Delta is making a whole lot of money off of us. We'll both ask for better contract. We too are in business to make money. What's $15-20 million more for both of us when Mr. Delta and Mr. United are making $2 Billion in profits per year each. Competition does not have to destroy labor wages.

If AA takes Eagle to the ground, It'll be at the hands of PSA pilots, and also at the hands of which ever other regional takes up the flying for cheaper at the expense of simply a LIVABLE WAGE.

Seriously, the fear of Blackballing needs to be introduced into the Regional Airline Industry. It worked for Majors it will and can work for regional's. Trust they will toe the line when MAJOR AIRLINE PILOTS (who these cheap, undercutting regional pilots hope to fly for one day) help toe the line.

Was there not a Blacklist for PFT and other pilots who did not toe the line, who were decreasing the STANDARDS and WAGES of this PROFESSION? Am I wrong in my thinking? Am I way off track?

All you Major Airline pilots need to realize your a stakeholder in this regional airline fight. These same regional pilots will one day enter your roster, and will not have the back bone to toe the line, and will accept concessions from Mgmt.
 
Last edited:
I would love to see the response to the OP's letter if he gets one. That said, and I'm speaking strictly at the regional level here, first year pay (and FO pay in general) will never go up until the entire pilot group is ok with not making as much at the top end. Two stories from my time at Pinnacle will express how much greed there is from the top of the seniority lists. They both happened back when we voted down the TA that preceded the JCBA.

First is with the pay scale that was proposed. Somehow, the Captains at 10+ years were getting a bigger dollar increase than the FOs. Making numbers up, a 12 year Captain was going from $90 to $105/hour when a third year FO was going from $20 to $30/hour. The union loved to point out that FOs were getting a 50% increase while CAs were getting no where close to that. While that was true, it also increased the disparity between the top of the scale and the bottom of the scale.

The second story has a lot to do with the first and part of it happened before I joined the airline in 2008. When the airline was having trouble recruiting pilots, they proposed raising only first year pay. The pilots voted this down as a sign of solidarity hoping that it would result in quicker negotiations for a TA. Well, when the TA finally came out, we got a signing bonus. The signing bonus was attached to what your W-2s had been, meaning that FOs (who had given up raise for solidarity) were getting $1000-3000 while some senior guys were getting $30,000+. And the North Mississippi Flying Club believed they deserved every penny of it.

Eventually a new Regional will pop up and will end the "years of service" raises. The reality of the fee for departure business model is that if you get too expensive, your flying will go elsewhere. Longevity is a major part of that equation and the faster the pilot groups can figure this out, the better.
 
Last edited:
What's wrong with a simple "I'm sorry, we're too far apart on compensation?"
if you are trying to invoke change, you can't be politely quiet about it.

imagine if the declaration of indepenence simply said " we the people are sorry, but we disagree with your policies"

I'm sure that would have been enough to rally the people.

Its ok to NOT be afraid to rock the boat.
 
I wish I could like this more than once. Thank you for posting this.

For all those reasons above is why I still refuse to apply to an airline. I love aviation, I love flying, I wouldn't want to do anything else, but the things that we all put up with is absolutely ridiculous. In the past 5 years I've build up my time, experience and knowledge, and instead of moving forward, my next step may very well be a step back in both salary and QOL if I chose to go to a regional. Friends I've graduated school with who have jobs in offices are working up the ladder. Their experience and skill is rewarded with bonuses, better pay and QOL. Instead in our industry, an industry focused on professionalism and safety, we ignore the skilled and qualified for cheap labor.

I've enjoyed the airlines. Fun flying with good crews. I've worked outside aviation and the money was better, but QOL is way better in aviation. More time off and travel bennies, money will be good after a few years as well. My airline is aware pilots are expensive to train and replace so I can't complain how I've been treated.

It's not all sunshine and rainbows in any career. Aviation has been good so far.

Disclaimer: I live in base.
 
if you are trying to invoke change, you can't be politely quiet about it.

imagine if the declaration of indepenence simply said " we the people are sorry, but we disagree with your policies"

I'm sure that would have been enough to rally the people.

Its ok to NOT be afraid to rock the boat.

Eh...I think sending a snarky email to a HR lady is not quite rocking the boat ...it's just ranting at someone else's expense. It's not very likely to help your (or anyone's) cause, and will paint you in a bad light. She isn't King George... she's an admin type with no control over compensation.

Instead, a "Why I didn't take an airline job" piece sent to AOPA, USA Today, or anyone who will print it will better achieve your goal of rallying the people.

Much like the airplane-driving business, the circle of HR folks with knowledge on how to hire pilots is incredibly small. The lady who's windmill you just charged at may find herself at NetJets, SWA, FedEx, or some other place trying to hire pilots.

Disagreements (over salary, vacation, benefits, hat style, ear buds/no ear buds) are a given. Handling them professionally is a skill. Its ok to walk away from a deal with no hard feelings.

For the record, I think guys like you ARE rocking the boat... you're just doing it quietly. Those who prove their entrepreneurial and leadership skills while eschewing what used to be the traditional pilot path of starving at the regionals are serving as role-models to a new generation of young pilots. You're demonstrating that you can have a livable wage while staying close to home and doing what you love: it just takes work.
 
Eh...I think sending a snarky email to a HR lady is not quite rocking the boat ...it's just ranting at someone else's expense. It's not very likely to help your (or anyone's) cause, and will paint you in a bad light. She isn't King George... she's an admin type with no control over compensation..

Agree. Killing the messenger doesn't do any good and solves nothing. She's not responsible for the problems of the regionals.
 
Agree. Killing the messenger doesn't do any good and solves nothing. She's not responsible for the problems of the regionals.

hi Mike,

I disagree about the killing the messenger. there was no sarcasm in that email I sent. there was no angst towards her for doing her job. it was addressed to her as a reply in the hope of the small chance it gets brought up to a supervisor in a meeting when they discuss attracting new pilots. the hope that others might be replying similarly. to seed the notion that pilots are demanding higher starting pay.

regarding writing an article for a newspaper, that's a wonderful idea. I think I will do that too.
 
Eh...I think sending a snarky email to a HR lady is not quite rocking the boat ...it's just ranting at someone else's expense. It's not very likely to help your (or anyone's) cause, and will paint you in a bad light. She isn't King George... she's an admin type with no control over compensation.

Instead, a "Why I didn't take an airline job" piece sent to AOPA, USA Today, or anyone who will print it will better achieve your goal of rallying the people.

Much like the airplane-driving business, the circle of HR folks with knowledge on how to hire pilots is incredibly small. The lady who's windmill you just charged at may find herself at NetJets, SWA, FedEx, or some other place trying to hire pilots.

Disagreements (over salary, vacation, benefits, hat style, ear buds/no ear buds) are a given. Handling them professionally is a skill. Its ok to walk away from a deal with no hard feelings.

For the record, I think guys like you ARE rocking the boat... you're just doing it quietly. Those who prove their entrepreneurial and leadership skills while eschewing what used to be the traditional pilot path of starving at the regionals are serving as role-models to a new generation of young pilots. You're demonstrating that you can have a livable wage while staying close to home and doing what you love: it just takes work.
Agree. Killing the messenger doesn't do any good and solves nothing. She's not responsible for the problems of the regionals.

I will offer a differing opinion here and offer that Ben is dead on at directing this letter to her. While she has no control over the pay, workign conditions, etc... She is an HR rep. Her charge is setting up interviews, pre-screening, and getting people in the door. If there is and issue that comes up her superiors are going to ask why people are not coming in. She is a direct line. Ben or others are not prescreened by those doing the hiring. They are prescreened by the HR department. I think a letter like this actually helps. Now when her boss says why arent people coming in she can answer. And on the off chance they say, "we really wanted that Ben guy, what happened?" She can answer without hesitation.....
 
hi Mike,

I disagree about the killing the messenger. there was no sarcasm in that email I sent. there was no angst towards her for doing her job. it was addressed to her as a reply in the hope of the small chance it gets brought up to a supervisor in a meeting when they discuss attracting new pilots. the hope that others might be replying similarly. to seed the notion that pilots are demanding higher starting pay.

regarding writing an article for a newspaper, that's a wonderful idea. I think I will do that too.

Ok, thats cool. Your explanation makes sense and I see your point. Hopefully then, she did forward that someplace upstairs then with some form of implied "...hey management, thanks for making my job more difficult than it needs to be!"
 
if you are trying to invoke change, you can't be politely quiet about it.

imagine if the declaration of indepenence simply said " we the people are sorry, but we disagree with your policies"

I'm sure that would have been enough to rally the people.

Its ok to NOT be afraid to rock the boat.

Only problem is Ben, for every good letter like this you wrote; I'd bet 100 shiny jet syndrome people actually take the job because they "wanna fly jets!"
 
I've given up the idea of working for the airlines in a flight capacity. Having worked the ground for a few years and learning how to make more than the first few year FO's, I can't imagine making less than I already have.

I do think the belief that raising fares will fix your pay problem to be highly flawed. If the airline was able to make more money, they will not pay it to labor. That money will benefit the airline as a whole, not one particular group. Heres my take...hopefully I don't get flamed too much:

The payscales for airlines for the most part are public now. You can pretty much find all airlines FO and Capt. pay broken down, year by year. While they certainly don't pay more than published, they also don't pay less. It's fixed. While I find it completely okay to try to negotiate that wage up when the predisposed time (contract negotiations) is available, I don't find it productive to cry wolf about the wage someone VOLUNTARILY accepted. While I highly respect the position of pilots and flight crews around the world (honestly, it's a tough job not for everyone) I also understand the fact that they are nothing more than a pawn in a game of airline chess. Management will pay the absolute least required to keep bodies in seats. They don't care about the struggle someone has to go through to live on that salary, in the end, it's all very upfront before you start the job anyways. Expecting them to care or understand is a fallacy and a waste of everyone's breath.

If after negotiations, you find the pay still not to be what you'd expect, then know you're worth and move onto something that you feel fulfills that expectation. Remember, you're only worth what's the lowest amount of money you'll take to perform the job (this isn't a jab, just speaking monetarily, not personal 'worth.')

If finally, at the end of the day, you don't like what you're seeing (money, QOL, lifestyle) make a change for the better. You're in control of your destiny at all times. Maybe the 'dream' we all chase/live should just be that....a dream. We all are selfish of what we want vs. what we need. It's determining how much we sway to one side or the other that determines all of our career paths.
 
if you are trying to invoke change, you can't be politely quiet about it.

imagine if the declaration of indepenence simply said " we the people are sorry, but we disagree with your policies"

I'm sure that would have been enough to rally the people.

Its ok to NOT be afraid to rock the boat.

In my situation if I got an email from another regional's hr dept; (now I have zero desire to jump to another regional anyway so were purely hypothetical) it would be simpler and read like this:

Thanks for your interest, due to my current situation I would be more than happy to take your job offer at a starting salary of $60,000/year. This figure is non-negotiable. Thanks again for your time and Happy Holidays!

Sincerely,

Jason

End message

FYI I'm going on year three at my regional current regional and with my other income 60k wouldn't even be the large windfall that it was when I was a CFI. Either way, kudos for rocking the boat Ben!
 
Back
Top