A learning experience in IMC / Bonanza

Re: A learning expirience in IMC.

pretttty sure I know the guy in the right seat. Lucky people. REALLY poor decision making.
 
Re: A learning expirience in IMC.

But....but, they have moving map and other cool gizmo's!

......none of which make up for low or no SA.

As stated, VFR through IMC generally isn't a good thing. To do it safely (if there's truly a need for it, I'll cover that in a minute), it takes some really high SA and planning. My example for the previous sentence (which I'm sure people were about to go ape over :)) was a couple of times in Afghan when my wingman and I got called over to a ground battle in progress at night. Problem was there was solid undercast below us, and the friendlies exchanging fire with the enemy underneath it didn't really have time, or ability, to give us an updated WX observation. Marshalling overhead, the only thing I could think to do was reference the old 1:100 map and note my position on it, and the friendlies position. Following that, I then had to determine what the elevations were surrounding and get an idea of what the terrain was doing in the surrounding area, none of which I could see from up here. Turns out it was mountainous, but with good valleys. From the current position, I then had to note time/speed/desired heading, minimum altitude I wanted to go down to (I don't know how accurate the map is, if at all), turn to the heading, hack the clock, and drop into the soup. Crosschecking time/speed/heading/altitude, I was able to eventually break out of the clouds undeneath but had to very quickly get my bearings as to where I was, where the battle was, and where the granite was. Not easy at night, with no moon and no lights anywhere besides tracers and high-order detonations. From there, was able to get the wingman to do the same thing and we were able to situate ourselves and get to work supporting the friendlies on the ground. The whole time I was descending through the soup to my made-up minimum altitude, I was just waiting for that instantaneous impact into terrain.......wondering if I'd even have time to register a thought that it had happened, or if it'd be so quick a death, there wouldn't be time for that.

Moral of the story is that VFR into IMC near terrain is nothing at all to be taken lightly. I came up with a half-assed, but useable plan quickly and without too much thought only because I was forced to due to the situation. And my situation was pretty unique. The only time I can think of having to do this as a civilian pilot would be some sort of complete electrical failure or something similar....definitely something non-standard and emergency. But remember, all the technology in the world won't do anything for you if you have zero or low SA, don't have a plan, are not ahead of the aircraft and the situation, and are sitting fat/dumb/happy.
 
My signature on another pilot forum used to read:

"Contrary to popular belief, Garmin does not sell situational awareness"

Never in my life did I think I'd actually see it unfolding in front of my face.
 
Re: A learning expirience in IMC.

Moral of the story is that VFR into IMC near terrain is nothing at all to be taken lightly. I came up with a half-assed, but useable plan quickly and without too much thought only because I was forced to due to the situation. And my situation was pretty unique.

Had to do a similar thing in a-stan to extract some injured troops... what you failed to include in your story was how long you held your breath. :)
 
Re: A learning expirience in IMC.

Wow, those guys are damn lucky to be alive. I only hope for their sake that they realize that and learn from it before it's too late.


Based on the laughter at the end of the video i would dare say they learned nothing and wouldn't hesitate to do it again.
 
You guys have covered the Bonanza stupidity. Think that I immediately thought of, even before the bushes/terrain, was when they went into IMC - where did the L-39 go? We see him in close formation, next it is IMC and you can barely see the wingtip, much less the L-39. Where did that guy go?
 
Re: A learning expirience in IMC.

That is scary, the even scarier thing is it sounded like they were standing around the plane laughing at the end...
 
Re: A learning expirience in IMC.

Based on the laughter at the end of the video i would dare say they learned nothing and wouldn't hesitate to do it again.

Response from the guy who posted the video when that subject was brought up -

"We knew full well just how fortunate we were to be alive. What you hear is nervous laughter because we weren't sure how to deal with it otherwise."
 
Re: A learning expirience in IMC.

Had to do a similar thing in a-stan to extract some injured troops... what you failed to include in your story was how long you held your breath. :)

Oh man, you ain't kidding......pucker factor was way high. As I knew, and could sense, myself descending below the mountaintops which I knew were on either side of me as I headed down to my "MDA" in the soup, I was just waiting for that instant SMASH!! as I impacted a mountain to come. I was momentarily going back and forth with "this is effing nuts" and "I wonder if I'll physically know or realize it when I do impact, before I'm dead?"
 
At the end of the video someone is laughing

I hope it is somebody on the ramp mocking their stupidity, not the Ef'tards that were flying.
 
Re: A learning expirience in IMC.

MikeD said:
Oh man, you ain't kidding......pucker factor was way high. As I knew, and could sense, myself descending below the mountaintops which I knew were on either side of me as I headed down to my "MDA" in the soup, I was just waiting for that instant SMASH!! as I impacted a mountain to come. I was momentarily going back and forth with "this is effing nuts" and "I wonder if I'll physically know or realize it when I do impact, before I'm dead?"

We as a flight of five flew into a cloud layer on the way to the Shari-khot valley... I remember my hand on the thrust (collective) was tingling wanting desperately to pull in power and climb. After way too long poof! We popped out at the RP before the valley.

I remember thinking along the way: "Are we this good? Are we good enough to pull this off??"
 
These pilots are stupid.

One thing I've learned over 15 years in flying;

Every one of you guys who are saying "I could never be that stupid" will one day suffer a rude awakening that yes you could be.

Even the best and safest pilots can and will find themselves in a situation that they promised themselves they would never be in, all because of decisions and assumptions they made. I could refer to the hundreds of highly skilled and experianced pilots who have been killed by making rookie mistakes during "milk run" flights.


It's not the fall that kills you, nor the sudden stop at the end. It's the sudden shocking realization that yes, you were that Fing stupid.
 
Sometimes Bonanza pilots make one think long and hard about Darwinism.
Bonanza = flying doctor killer.
 
So someone laughed at the end of the video...People deal with stress and fear and many different ways. At least I think I remember reading that somewhere in the FOI's...
 
i guess i just don't understand the mentality of finding youself in a spot, not declaring an emergency and climbing.
 
One thing I've learned over 15 years in flying;

Every one of you guys who are saying "I could never be that stupid" will one day suffer a rude awakening that yes you could be.

Even the best and safest pilots can and will find themselves in a situation that they promised themselves they would never be in, all because of decisions and assumptions they made. I could refer to the hundreds of highly skilled and experianced pilots who have been killed by making rookie mistakes during "milk run" flights.


It's not the fall that kills you, nor the sudden stop at the end. It's the sudden shocking realization that yes, you were that Fing stupid.

That's what I was trying to say this whole time and you summed it up in basically two paragraphs. Thanks.
 
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