A Bad Time for a Career Change?

Oh don't worry. . .I'm pretty damn sure Tony has thought WAY outside the Airline box.

The box that works best for him is earning good money in his current job, and flying recreational. Even in today's market, I give him only a few more years before he is galavanting across the country in his own piston or turbo piston of some type.

Right Tea-Dub? :)
 
There are a lot more flying opportunities out there than airlines.
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WRX - It would be really helpful for me if you expanded on this idea. Are there many non-airline aviation jobs that, in the heart of your career, pay $150k +? I'd really like to explore a little farther outside of the box.

Regarding the "dream job" idea, it's been a long hard process for me to realize that there may be no such thing as a dream job. I still grasp for it, but deep down I know there'd be some issue with whatever I do. For the moment, I'm settling for something that doesn't drive me crazy, and pays great money. I get my kicks outside of work.

But there's always that thought, and the thing that really freaks me out is getting to retirement filled with regrets about all the things that I didn't do.
 
Sprint100 said:
Uhm, they'd prolly say I am damn lucky considering the other tens of thousands that don't make it trying to follow a dream.
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I garuntee they are saying that. But I bet they would also say, follow your dreams, I did and look where it got me. Sure, in that example, the majority never reach it. But you don't need to be an astronaut to love your job.

Sprint100 said:
That sounds like it is OK to make a poor financial decision as long as it is for a dream:)
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Ha, no, far from it. I think it might be worse if it was chasing after something you want cause it might run it for you.

surreal1221 said:
Alright, I'm only quoting that portion because I'm really not replying to anything specific in this posting, but rather - hopefully - providing some more clarification on my stance on the phrase "dream job."

Also, note that I didn't mention chasing money, so I'm not really sure where you got that. It has NOTHING to do with chasing money, in all honesty - there isn't enough money in the world for me to ever happy with. I'm a greedy bastard, just that simple. But I'm not going to chase money, whatever that might mean to you as an individual.

Furthermore, I didn't challenge the stance that someone should enjoy their line of work. I actually agree with that position and highly support it. One MUST enjoy their line of work and their chosen profession.

Enjoying one's profession and line of work though is significantly different than having some illusion of finally reaching your "dream job" Reality will set in, and it sets in HARD and fast for most of us who have previous work experience, a family, a mortgage, or any combination of those or any additional terms that could be added.

A dream job is just that, a dream. We may all have our "dream jobs" in our minds, and I'm sure we all work extremely hard to get to that "dream job." But once you're there, it is no longer about dreaming . . .it's about the reality and associated risks (be it physical, emotional, or monetary) that are associated with them.
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The money issue had nothing to do with you. You said when people chase their dream they end up miserable. Some people don't dream about a job, instead dream about simply being rich. I think that when people chase after money, constantly going after the next "sure thing" they end up miserable.

I think you have what I am saying confused. I have no illusions that being an airline pilot or even a pro hockey player(my real dream job) would be all fun. I know every job has issues, like TonyW said about being a pro athlete. My ideal job is a job where I am challenged daily, am not sitting in a cube and can make a livable wage. I understand the down side of the job.
 
surreal1221 said:
Oh don't worry. . .I'm pretty damn sure Tony has thought WAY outside the Airline box.

The box that works best for him is earning good money in his current job, and flying recreational. Even in today's market, I give him only a few more years before he is galavanting across the country in his own piston or turbo piston of some type.

Right Tea-Dub? :)
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Well, technically, I already am a partial owner of a fleet of five aircraft. :D

Okay, I share them with 60 other people, but you know what?

I've never had a problem getting an airplane when I want it.

And you're right, the best course of action for me is to continue to do what I'm doing for a living and fly on the side. I may get that CFI and use it for extra cash. Who knows?
 
Two things:

1) AirDog. That is one hell of a first post. Have you been lurking for like 3 or 4 years to write a post that good? Anyway, kudos to that post.

2) Life is not that difficult. Just do what makes you happy. It took me almost 35 years to really figure that out for me, so kudos to those who can figure it out sooner and work toward it.

By the way, here is how simple like is. TexasFlyer needs these things to be ultimately happy, but nothing more... nothing less...:
1) BASIC ROOF OVER HEAD to keep warm in winter and cool in summer
2) DECENT FOOD to keep him nourished
3) CHEAP RELIABLE VEHICLE to get around town
4) MUSIC to relax him and entertain him
5) FLYING because for some unknown reasons airplanes make him smile
6) BASIC MOTORCYCLE to ride when just needs to get away
7) A GOOD WOMAN to share life, love, and common interests with
8) A FRIEND or FAMILY MEMBER whom I can relate to and count on

Really, I need nothing more than those 8things. And right now I have every one of those almost. I'm almost flying as a career, which is the only way I will be in an airplane enough to satisfy the disease it seems. And in a couple months once I am there with my first CFI job. Then I get to work on #7 since that's been missing in my life for a whole year now. And that's really the only thing truly missing right now, but it'll come with time once again.

And since that's all I need, I found those needs do not take a whole lot of money. Basic rent. I know how to cook. Kia's function, Honda's are nicer, but no need to ever own a BMW again. Music is mostly free. Flying will be my job and still provide a smile (most days, as we all know nothing is always perfect). Used bikes are cheap and with gas prices, pretty smart right now. Friends and family are free. Woman I don't understand and can be expensive, so I must pick carefully.

And of course, out of ll this, the only ones in my list that even relate to jobs are music, flying, and motorcycles. Well, from experience I know my music career was short lived and motorcycle racing was a painful. So seeing bands for fun and riding on weekends makes sense in this case. Plus I know, trying to do the kind of flying I would do as a hobby would bankrupt me, even when making $150k to $200k per year doing something I do not enjoy that is not on that list above (add plane costs, rental cars at destinations, fees, begging friends to help cover some costs when you take them along, etc. ouch!). So flying makes the perfect job to me based on what makes me smile each day. After all, those 8 items are my "dreams" of the "simple life".

As you can see, following your dreams is not that hard. Just break it down into parts and keep it real. And also, be flexible if anything changes, as things do change over time. List out the things you ENJOY and NEED, nothing more or less. Then figure out how to integrate that into your life, nothing more or less. I've done a lot of motivational speaking and private life coaching over the years. Every time the result has been positive for my client.

And, I even took my own life coaching advice, and that's the hardest thing to do! Easy to give advice. But sometime hard to even take your own advice. I'm glad I took my own advice and that I am living my dreams. I wish I took the chance sooner though, instead of being brain washed into thinking money and stability was everything. As I learned, stability does not exists outside of the protected government jobs that still are around (yes, I too lost everything after 9-11 and come close one other time after a sudden reduction of force). And no matter how much money you make, it's never enough because something always comes up that seems to take it from you. Must be the way of the world.

Rant over...
 
jtrain609 said:
I've been home 50 hours in the last 14 days.

Did you figure that into your equation?
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I knew Project Mangers that were home 0 hrs in 14 days when I was working the desk job. They'd typically go home for 1 weekend/month for about 6 months. Many of them were in their mid-40s with families.
 
SteelMike said:
WRX - It would be really helpful for me if you expanded on this idea. Are there many non-airline aviation jobs that, in the heart of your career, pay $150k +? I'd really like to explore a little farther outside of the box.
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Corporate has many opportunities with that pay scale.

I don't make anywhere close to that, but I'm far above the typical regional airline f/o salary flying 135 charter. Most of the time I'm only gone for a couple of hrs/day too!
 
wrxpilot said:
I knew Project Mangers that were home 0 hrs in 14 days when I was working the desk job. They'd typically go home for 1 weekend/month for about 6 months. Many of them were in their mid-40s with families.
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Who in their right mind would do a job like that? Seriously.
 
Dont quit your day job, but start slowly working toward completition, then be ready to jump in , in a few years when there is an upswing.
 
Most of us are career changers on here. We have all done other jobs that were either good or not so good. But, no matter what, aviation has drawn us in. Crazy or not, I left a job I used to love, the people I loved to work with, and much security, all for this dream in aviation.

Is it worth it? Don't know, this is an ever changing dream with turns at every corner. But I know that my old life had to change and that I never wanted to ask what if.... I can say I loved the comfort of 80K or so a year and chasing bad guys. But I began to want a huge change.

What will the future hold? Don't know. But I am curious to see. What about you all?
 
juskl said:
Most of us are career changers on here. We have all done other jobs that were either good or not so good. But, no matter what, aviation has drawn us in. Crazy or not, I left a job I used to love, the people I loved to work with, and much security, all for this dream in aviation.

Is it worth it? Don't know, this is an ever changing dream with turns at every corner. But I know that my old life had to change and that I never wanted to ask what if.... I can say I loved the comfort of 80K or so a year and chasing bad guys. But I began to want a huge change.

What will the future hold? Don't know. But I am curious to see. What about you all?
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Funny about that, I'd love to trade this job for a career chasing corporate bad guy types who abuse their employees.
 
The next decade or so is, I fear, going to be a bad time for a career, period. Change or no. Pilots will most likely feel the heat first and be most directly affected, but while it's counter-intuitive, I think in the long run they will not be the hardest hit. The planes are going to fly. Some people will cut back on leisure travel, some people will even cut back slightly on business travel, but in the end people and boxes move around. That's not, of course, to say that the already meagre renumeration won't take further "temporary" cuts or that careers won't stagnate, but the coming economic crisis is going to be a bloodbath for many jobs. There will be worse (and better) places to be than the front office.
 
I know a guy who is a lawyer, works 12 hour days, really has no life outside of work and is content.
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Thats all that guy works? Sheez, I've worked longer than 14-16hrs a day at the airport for what? $20,000 a yr. The guy is probably content because he makes descent money. Yeah, yeah, I know its my choice to be paid $20,000 a yr as an FO, but that doesn't make the abuse we take right from management. And talk about no life outside work, I'm not sure how pilots communicated with family and friends before the advent of cellphones and the internet. Thats pretty much the only life you'll have if you can sneak a call in between turns or a short layover the way the regionals setup their schedules.

The most ironic part is we as pilots all love to fly. Thats the glue that binds all the young boys/girls that want to fly for a living. Its why all that training and sacrifice is put forth to attain a career we wish for. Its all the other BS(bad schedules, low pay, low morale, furloughs, etc) that turns it into something less than the "dream" we all envisioned before we got here...
 
12 hour days?

Bro's right, we'll work 14-16 hour days and not think about it. To have a 12 hour duty day, and only be paid for 4 hours of that is fairly standard at my base (of course the lines have been going down the crapper for years now). I WISH I could work 12 billable hours in a day, I'd be making some cash money!

$19,000 a year + being home 50 hours in 14 days = this isn't a career, it's a dead end job.
 
jtrain609 said:
$19,000 a year + being home 50 hours in 14 days = this isn't a career, it's a dead end job.
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This drives me nuts.

YOU DON'T SPEND YOUR ENTIRE CAREER MAKING $19,000 A YEAR.*


*You might, if you continually jump around at jobs. Or you get really unlucky. But I'd just throw in the towel after making $19k for more than 2 years. Honestly.

In addition, while working "14-16 hour days" is true sometimes, it's not like you're out there digging trenches in 100F weather with no water. You're sitting in a freaking chair in an air conditioned machine with access to plenty of water and food for crying out loud. Good grief, and you guys wonder why the public doesn't respect us.
 
You know what drives me nuts? Looking forward and seeing ZERO career progression, and then having people justify it somehow.

How long has the average captain been at Air Wisky? I'd say the average guy at Express, before leaving, has been around 7 years. A lot of those guys took 4-5 years to upgrade.

So that's 4-5 years making $35,000 a year, then 2 years making $70,000 and then you get to start all over again at the bottom, when you're 35, at a mainline carrier.

Then a lot of those guys are looking at being furloughed from those mainline carriers.

So where does that leave you? Staying at the regionals and losing your contract when you get wipsawed against another regional, or going to a mainline carrier to get furloughed.

I'd say the majority of people in this "career" will get completely hosed a handful of times, and then they'll start over at the bottom again. To do what? Spend a bunch of time away from home, get paid jack, have zero financial stability and have a "cool" job?

Sounds rational to me...
 
I, along with many many other people will probably lose my job in the next 12-18 months. I understand where you are coming from. It completely sucks. This industry has a lot of pluses but it also has a lot of minuses. Either get out now and stop complaining, or stay in and stop complaining. But for gods sakes stop complaining. No one put a gun to your head and said you must make $19k/yr working a dead end job. There are others that want the chance.

For those that "want" an airline career I agree, it's going to be rocky. What we are going through is unprecedented in history. It's anyones guess where it will end up.
 
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