A Bad Time for a Career Change?

[juskl]

Do what you love to do in life. In this industry, you have to love to fly. No matter what avenue you take. I just saw a flight school in Telkeetna, Ak was looking for tailwheel instructors, and I think to myself, now that would be heaven...... The heck with everything else. There are many avenues to take. Take your time and see the whole picture, then decide if it's worth it...

 

[3green]

If you want to make a career change, I suggest like many others on JC take your time and learn about the industry. Its one thing to say you love to fly, but imagine when your doing it as a job when someone tells you where, when and how to fly? In the end its a job, you work and get paid(or from an FO perspective a lack of pay). Right now the industry bites and its going to get worse before it gets better...

Another point is people like to say you have to be happy with your job/work. Yes, flying is something alot of people enjoy doing, but once your furloughed your not going to be showing up to work at that job you love. Especially once you stop getting a paycheck...

In the end, airline flying is something many people have to experience first had before they can say whether or not its the right choice. I'm glad I made the career change to flying part 121, but I am also looking at my options right now with possible furlough's coming to getting out of aviation for something more stable...

 

[SteelMike]

Thanks again for all the thoughts, guys. Wouldn't this all be so much easier if someone just had the answers?

Wasn't there a day when flying was sexy and captains were paid $350k per year? What happened?

 

[learflyer]

Thanks again for all the thoughts, guys. Wouldn't this all be so much easier if someone just had the answers?

Wasn't there a day when flying was sexy and captains were paid $350k per year? What happened?

you're welcome. And thanks for not jumping down the throats of us experienced guys and saying were negative. The above poster was correct. Yes, we all love to fly. We love to fly and go where we want and when we want. But when it's time to go somewhere you don't want to go, or a 03:00 am wakeup, or having to penetrate a line of TS's where otherwise you probably would have waited it out, is where the love diminishes!

Me, I'm back to doing the $100 hamburger thing again. BTW, I still fly contract on a Beechjet to satisfy the jet thing though!

 

[jtrain609]

Thanks again for all the thoughts, guys. Wouldn't this all be so much easier if someone just had the answers?

Wasn't there a day when flying was sexy and captains were paid $350k per year? What happened?

Well...

-September 11th
-CEO's making too much bloody money, and the average worker not making enough
-Oil hitting $140 a barrel
-A bunch of guys that would do this job "FOR FREE!" because they think it's "teh a wesome."

 

[Matt13C]

Well...

-September 11th
-CEO's making too much bloody money, and the average worker not making enough
-Oil hitting $140 a barrel
-A bunch of guys that would do this job "FOR FREE!" because they think it's "teh a wesome."

Reminds me of an article I just read. Apparently, this is the first time since back in the 40's that we have come the end of an economic upturn and the average American family is actually worse off than before the growth started. According to the article the median income in 2000 was 59,398 and now it is 58,407.

When I read that I instantly thought about the huge concessions pilots made to keep airlines "afloat" after 9/11 that were never given back. I know pilots are a very small part of the overall work force. But I think it is indicative of the direction the industry is taking.

I still wish to fly for a living and would never discourage anyone from following their dreams. I will make every attempt to stay away from regional/commercial flying. I will be totally happy flying a small business jet or even a turbo prop around if it give me the QOL I desire.

Back on topic.

 

[surreal1221]

Following one's Dreams is a slow way to realizing that you're going to be miserable in your professional life.

Building your profession up to be some "Dream" is a horrible way to start.

I know I know. . .we all as kids "Dreamt" of growing up and flying heavy metal and wearing the kick ass hat. . .but hey - reality sets in and it's really not that dreamy.

Perhaps I just can't subscribe to the theory that someone's "dream" job is something that will really stay their "dream" throughout their professional career. Descriptive words are great for kids, but not so much for grown adults who have obligations to tend to.

Best of luck

 

[Matt13C]

Following one's Dreams is a slow way to realizing that you're going to be miserable in your professional life.

I only think that is true if your dream is to be a millionaire. Chasing money is a sure way to living a miserable life.

I wonder what the astronaut or the pro athlete would say about following their dreams? I guess it did not work out to well for them.

I know what you are saying, that as a kid you look at a fire truck and say oh, that must be so cool, I want to do that. But, if you are an adult and really would like to fight fires and help people and get the extra bonus of riding on the big hook and ladder truck why not do it?

I think it is better to do something you can enjoy rather than doing something because it pays better. You only live once. I would rather be consistently happy and content with my work and private life rather than miserable in my work life to bring about a marginal increase in potential fun in my personal life. In the end, if you are miserable at work, your personal life will suffer. Of course this is within reason, if a job pays sub-poverty wages for long periods of time it does not matter how great it is you will suffer. But outside of first year regional FO pay most pilots makes above the poverty line and in many cases above the median income level.

Yes, furloughs suck, but every industry has layoffs, not just aviation. From working in the Marketing world I know this all too well. If a big contract is lost the whole team who worked on it is normally laid off if a new equal sized contract can not be found. If the market starts to dip and companies feel a pinch, the first area cut is marketing.

 

[tonyw]

I only think that is true if your dream is to be a millionaire. Chasing money is a sure way to living a miserable life.

I wonder what the astronaut or the pro athlete would say about following their dreams? I guess it did not work out to well for them.

I think it is better to do something you can enjoy rather than doing something because it pays better. You only live once.

It depends on why you're chasing the money. I'll be blunt. The only reason I work is for the money.

I look at work as something I do in order to be able to pay to do things I enjoy. It's called work for a reason. Work and fun are not, for most people, the same thing. Work is something you do to make money and fun is something you do for pleasure.

When it starts affecting your livelihood, it's not fun and games anymore.

As for following your dreams and pro athletes and astronauts, how many people dream of being an astronaut? How many astronauts are there?

I believe there are something like 600 college football teams. Let's say each team has an 80 man roster.

That is 48,000 people playing college football every single year.

There are 32 NFL teams with 53 players. That's 1,696 slots available.

This means that if every single NFL team cleared their entire roster out every single year, only four percent of college football players would have a job in the NFL.

I sure hope those guys have something to pursue other than their dream of playing in the NFL.

Sure, pursue your dreams, but be smart about it. First of all, realize that there is no such thing as a perfect job. Every job is going to have some bullcaca associated with it.

Second, realize that you work to make money. Don't do stupid things like PFJ because you're paying them to allow you to work. That's bullcrap.

You have to pay the bills somehow and if following your dreams means you rack up $75K of debt and they aren't hiring, well, how are you going to live the dream when you're in a van down by the river?

 

[Hernandezcfi]

Now is a actually a good time to forget about getting a big loan for some big flight academy! Get yourself some red books, study on your own for free because you don't need to pay to have what you need to learn spoon fed to you by an instructor! Walk, not run to your local FBO and show up with all the stuff you learned in those red books. Take a lesson or three a week and stay out of debt. I would be willing to bet that by the time you have a little seasoning in your logbook, the music will start again and the aviation gods will smile upon you.

 

[Matt13C]

Everyone works for the money. Like you said, its called work for a reason. Nobody wants to do it, but we have to.

Going after your dream and making poor financial decisions are mutually exclusive. Many people make very poor financial decisions everyday and they have nothing to do with chasing a dream. Also, many people chase their dream and do so in a smart and economical way and are happier for it.

It is very possible to work your way through your training, come out with little to no debt and find a decent flying job. Is it a guarantee, no, but neither is coming out of law school and landing that sweet job in the big firm. I would rather do something I enjoy and can get some excitement out of for work and then go home and play. I did the office thing, I would need a very large salary gap over flying to keep me there. I have an interview at a company and if hired will do it a bit longer while I earn my ratings and save some money. But once I am able to attain a flying job, I plan to be out of there.

Every person is different though. I know a guy who is a lawyer, works 12 hour days, really has no life outside of work and is content. He wants to be partner, likes money and does not care what it takes to get there. I can't do that.

 

[tonyw]

See, here's my thinking.

Right now, my total comp is about what a ten year captain would make at American Eagle. I picked them because they were first alphabetically.

So, it would take me ten years to get back to where I am now.

This assumes that I would not get a single pay raise at my current position, which simply is not true. If nothing else, my quota would increase, which would mean my total comp would increase.

Would I enjoy flying an airplane around more than my current job? Probably.

Is it worth waiting ten years to get back to where I am now?

Absolutely not.

 

[jet-dreams]

Like others have said "Do what makes you happy"... That is the secret to life in my opinion.
Only you know what will work for you. Just make certain you have no illusions about what you are getting yourself into.

I am also working towards a career change as a professional pilot. I have chosen to take the FBO route as this will allow me to keep my current job and pay some of my debt down. It should also allow the aviation industry some time to rebound. But of course I realize there are no guarantees.

The one thing for certain in life is change.

 

[Airdog]

I was in same position as you. I did alot of investigation and concluded that I was best off taking lessons before and after work and on weekends through at least Commercial/Mulit Engine/Instrument.

You need the time/money however to fly at least 2-3 times per week. Once you get to Comm AMEL, Inst. you can make decision whether to go for flight instructor ratings to build time as flight instructor, build time some other way like towing banners.

I considered "buying" a job after I got my Comm ticket. I wasn't in debt and could afford to do something that most people on these forums wouldn't recommend. You'll hear arguments like you're not paying your dues, etc. BS. This is a free country with a capitalist system - get your job how you best see fit.

I could afford to buy a multi engine plane, which I did and I've logged about 400 hours in it - very expensive, but family loved getting hauled around and I've got a job w/class date this month.

I looked at time building programs with freight operators and Gulfstream (this will prompt flames), as well as getting my flight instructor stuff. If you were my son I'd probably recommend keep working and get your instructor ratings, quit your job and build time instructing. If Flight Safety would hire you as an instructor (I think they hire only within unless desperate), go there. If you are in a big hurry and can afford it "buy" time.

I think the schools that advertise "sure thing" relationships with airlines should be viewed with an extremely jaundiced eye. They may have excellent training, that is respected, but they cannot guarantee a job.

The industry will never be like it was before the 1978 Airline Deregulation Act - the really big bucks are gone. The industry is cyclic with intense competition, so many avaition jobs will disappear and reappear at new companies. However, if you don't mind being gone about 50% of the time, you make an great living doing something you love. Go for it.

 

[surreal1221]

I only think that is true if your dream is to be a millionaire. Chasing money is a sure way to living a miserable life.

Alright, I'm only quoting that portion because I'm really not replying to anything specific in this posting, but rather - hopefully - providing some more clarification on my stance on the phrase "dream job."

Also, note that I didn't mention chasing money, so I'm not really sure where you got that. It has NOTHING to do with chasing money, in all honesty - there isn't enough money in the world for me to ever happy with. I'm a greedy bastard, just that simple. But I'm not going to chase money, whatever that might mean to you as an individual.

Furthermore, I didn't challenge the stance that someone should enjoy their line of work. I actually agree with that position and highly support it. One MUST enjoy their line of work and their chosen profession.

Enjoying one's profession and line of work though is significantly different than having some illusion of finally reaching your "dream job" Reality will set in, and it sets in HARD and fast for most of us who have previous work experience, a family, a mortgage, or any combination of those or any additional terms that could be added.

A dream job is just that, a dream. We may all have our "dream jobs" in our minds, and I'm sure we all work extremely hard to get to that "dream job." But once you're there, it is no longer about dreaming . . .it's about the reality and associated risks (be it physical, emotional, or monetary) that are associated with them.

 

[tonyw]

A dream job is just that, a dream. We may all have our "dream jobs" in our minds, and I'm sure we all work extremely hard to get to that "dream job." But once you're there, it is no longer about dreaming . . .it's about the reality and associated risks (be it physical, emotional, or monetary) that are associated with them.

:yeahthat:

Right now, if God reached down and said I'm going to give you the skills to be an all-star player in whatever sport you want, I'd of course say yes.

But I guarantee you that once I got there, I'd find something about the job I didn't like. Maybe I'd be an all-star on a crappy team, and I'd know that my team had no chance of winning. Maybe the owner would be a prick. Maybe the fans would boo me because while I put up the numbers, I wasn't perceived as a clutch player. Maybe I'd get sick of living out of hotels and not being able to go out without people bugging me for pictures. Maybe I'd get sick of the media asking me how I felt about having a good game but losing anyway.

Who knows what it'd be?

But it'd be something.

As you can tell from my very hypothetical example, you will put up with crap at any job you get, so please do not put any job on a pedestal or you will be very disappointed.

 

[Sprint100]

I wonder what the astronaut or the pro athlete would say about following their dreams? I guess it did not work out to well for them.

Uhm, they'd prolly say I am damn lucky considering the other tens of thousands that don't make it trying to follow a dream.

 

[Sprint100]

Going after your dream and making poor financial decisions are mutually exclusive. Many people make very poor financial decisions everyday and they have nothing to do with chasing a dream. Also, many people chase their dream and do so in a smart and economical way and are happier for it.

That sounds like it is OK to make a poor financial decision as long as it is for a dream

 

[pilot4500]

There isn't anything wrong with chasing one's dream, whatever that may be. I have been in aviation for a while (since 2001). When I was young, I dreamed of being a Captain for Southwest Airlines and blazing a golden contrail across the heavens in a shiny new Boeing 737.

Things didn't go quite the way I planned. I now bounce my way across the sky in a 35 year old Piper Seneca hauling bank checks. I'm not complaining though. I make just enough to pay my bills and that is more than a lot of people can say. I also enjoy what I do most of the time.

After going through a few cycles in the industry, I am now looking for something more stable. If someone offered me $50,000 to sit behind a desk and be home every night, I would jump at the opportunity. I am at a point in my life where I just want some financial stability and a predictable schedule. Something that will allow me to make a decent living and see my fiance at home everyday. It is unlikely that I will find that job in the aviation world.

Having said that, I love to fly and I will always love it, but I'm not sure it is the best career path given what my goals are. And my goals have changed since I got into aviation.

 

[wrxpilot]

See, here's my thinking.

Right now, my total comp is about what a ten year captain would make at American Eagle. I picked them because they were first alphabetically.

It always amazes me how some of you guys cannot think outside the airline box. There are a lot more flying opportunities out there than airlines. Fortunately for me, I've already figured that out...