9L, 9E, XJ JCBA executive summary

USMC-SSGT said:
Dont forget that when looking at your pay raise there is more to it then just the pay rate for your current years of service.

For example:

I am getting a $4 dollar per hour raise Feb 18th (tentative)
On my anniversary date later this year I will get another $2 dollars per hour
On December, a few months later, I will get another $2 dollars per hour

The initial $4 dollars is good but by the end of the year (less than 10 months after signing) it will be an $8 dollar an hour raise.
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With my hire date and the DOS, every 6 months Ill receive a raise. Itll be nice!
 
cencal83406 said:
Maybe so... but you're welcome for the airplanes. Go ahead and thank the Mesaba folks for a pay rate. And thank the fact that all the MECs wanted to work together so that you still have a job... sucks not to have a contract, doesn't it?
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Removed..not worth it.
 
The Juice said:
Removed..not worth it.
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Sometimes the truth hurts. Yeah, so a couple of Mesaba guys decided between laying on a grenade (Colgan) or just a bullet to the head (Pinnacle)... I was wrong. That notwithstanding, how did Qs show up at Colgan? Whose company bought Colgan then switched it up to a "holding company" and negated our Scope Grievance. And finally, I really hope you didn't think that Pinnacle Corp would negotiate any faster with just you guys.
 
cencal83406 said:
Furloughed Mesaba pilots went to Colgan? Hmmmmmm I seem to recall an LOA to bring furoughed Mesaba pilots to Pinnacle. You probably want to get out from under that huge rock you've been hiding under, eventually.
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cencal83406 said:
Maybe so... but you're welcome for the airplanes. Go ahead and thank the Mesaba folks for a pay rate. And thank the fact that all the MECs wanted to work together so that you still have a job... sucks not to have a contract, doesn't it?
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I don't understand why you are acting like a jerk after you stated inaccurate information while insulting a Colgan employee and then got called out by multiple people... I certainly hope this is an abnormality in your personality or that you are in the vast minority at 9E. You may not like us but at some point in time you will have to work with us. Its disappointing to see that your only contributions for the moment are directed at belittling the CJC pilot group.
 
Just go to the road shows guys, talk to your Reps, quit having pointless arguments on the internet. The same guys that having been working their butts off since July 1st, are the same people who know the facts, and the truth about this contract. I have talked to my Reps, and I now have solid reasons for for why it went down the way it did. Plus I have been shown all the other great things about the contract that are outside of Section 3. One more piece of advice, show up with a cool head, it would have saved me 20 mins of arguement and owing an apology.
 
TUCKnTRUCK said:
I still can't believe that people are complaining about 2nd yr FO pay.

The ONLY real pay raise you're going to get is when you upgrade, and that will only happen if the planes/flying hasn't been sold/shipped/whipsawed to another pilot group that is making $24/hr for 2nd year FO's.

Remember when 2nd year FO's made like... 23/hr? that was in 2007.

Take the job security, ALL the other benefits, and wait a few years for your real pay raise.

If you think Colgan would have had their own contract, you hopefully wouldn't continue to think that as you were in upgrade class... still without a decent contract. 5+years the guys at 9E went at it. What makes you think we would have been any different?

Vote no... then watch as Pinnacle moves everything to the messaba ticket, and you have no scope, integration language or anything else to protect you... Would messaba's contract be worth getting displaced, furloughed or otherwise?
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You honestly must be the smartest person on the forum. I want to turn your post into an avatar. :yeahthat::clap:
 
Just for a little clarification... The way I understand it is Colgan basically negotiated with Contintental for the Q's and needed Pinnacle for the financing as they simply didn't have it. So Pinnacle jumped at the opportunity to actually grow and picked up Colgan and the prospect of many more Q's coming onto property in the future. Am I completely off? Serious question. The same way that PNCL jumped at the opportunity to acquire Mesaba for absolutely nothing up front. What businessman wouldn't have said yes to either of these deals?

Had the new PNCL not acquired Colgan, would Pinnacle have grown? They surely weren't going to get the Q's for Continental without Colgan. Were there RJ options that were completely thrown out because they spent money on the Q's? If that's the case then I would actually understand some of the comments from some of you, but I haven't read any information attesting to any of that. Seems like it was a win for Pinnacle and Colgan to be honest.
 
You're probably right.. Doesn't change the fact that Q's were purchased with 9E money..

Would 9E have grown without 9L? Probably.. Colgan was a better buy..

Would 9L have Q's were it not for 9E? Doubtful..

Why does it matter? Because much of the 9E pilot group sees it as planes we paid for and were given to another company, then Colgan 1st year FO's run their keyboards about "their Q's.." Tends to aggravate folks, I reckon..
 
So the options were, 1. Dont get Colgan and let some other airline pick them up and finance those Q's even though 9E had no growth prospects on the horizon. or 2. Get Colgan and make money long term and grow our company and get relations with 3 other major airlines.

And you all wanted option 1?
 
JrsyGuy said:
So the options were, 1. Dont get Colgan and let some other airline pick them up and finance those Q's even though 9E had no growth prospects on the horizon. or 2. Get Colgan and make money long term and grow our company and get relations with 3 other major airlines.

And you all wanted option 1?
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No if 9E doesn't buy Colgan, then Colgan would have gone out of business. The 1900 and saab weren't making money. Without PNCL you don't have a job.

PS- Word is Cal wanted XJT to fly the Q's.

PSS- If all you wanted was option 1, then why did you go to Colgan? Colgan was owned by 9E when you started.
 
JrsyGuy said:
So the options were, 1. Dont get Colgan and let some other airline pick them up and finance those Q's even though 9E had no growth prospects on the horizon. or 2. Get Colgan and make money long term and grow our company and get relations with 3 other major airlines.

And you all wanted option 1?
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thebiglebowskih.jpg


What option did you want? Option 3? Continue to be a whipsaw and hurt the industry with substandard work rules, pay rates, and safety with no financial backing doing EAS routes?
 
Saabomatic said:
The 50 cent raise isn't even close to what I had expected before the ta came out.
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Then you obviously set yourself up with completely unrealistic expectations. I'm sure your MEC didn't give you bad information that caused those unrealistic expectations, because I know most of your reps, and they aren't the type to make that kind of error. No, it seems far more likely that you simply didn't bother to educate yourself on what your industry peers make for flying small turboprop equipment. You need to compare yourself to your peers who fly EMB-120s, SF-340s, and DHC-200/300s. Those are your peers. A quick glance at their pay rates indicates that your expectations were far out of whack, especially for a first contract for your pilot group. Not only did you get industry standard wages for your longevity step, equipment, and seat, but you also got industry leading provisions such as a min day and excellent insurance costs. I would wager that your W2 and take home pay at the end of the year will be above your industry peers by a decent margin.

The JNC did a great job, as did their respective MECs and the ALPA staff. This is a step in the right direction for FFD carriers, and I'm glad to see it.
 
WalterSobchak said:
thebiglebowskih.jpg


What option did you want? Option 3? Continue to be a whipsaw and hurt the industry with substandard work rules, pay rates, and safety with no financial backing doing EAS routes?
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Do you even pay attention to what has been written? Or do you just spout off the first thing that comes to you mind? I posed a question, a question that someone else answered. I replied asking if, with those options, what 9E wanted. Simple stuff.
 
Gonzo said:
No if 9E doesn't buy Colgan, then Colgan would have gone out of business. The 1900 and saab weren't making money. Without PNCL you don't have a job.

PS- Word is Cal wanted XJT to fly the Q's.

PSS- If all you wanted was option 1, then why did you go to Colgan? Colgan was owned by 9E when you started.
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To think that colgan would have just vanished is kind of naive. I did hear that XJT was asked and that they turned the offer down. So it left Pinnacle with a great business move. Acquire Colgan and get their aircraft, relations with 3 new mainline carriers, and brand new 10 year no risk contracts for what promised to be very profitable equipment. It seems some of you wish that PNCL just left colgan alone and receive none of any of those things and hope that they found markets for more 50 seat flying.
 
Guys.. I didn't get my pony. Maybe I should vote no over that. To ME it was realistic. Plus..... I'm entitled and...like...stuff.

Read the darn thing and ask yourself "is this better than what I had? Can I live under this? could we have achieved more?"

For the record the delay in MEC approval was over a $1.6M item (PCL Longevity)... About .0016% of the total contract cost. The company spent FAR more than they realized when they agreed to the TA weeks ago. Since then they have had a bit of "buyers remorse". That being said, this deal is good. The company doesn't have "handcuffs" and will be profitable and be able to grow. Everyone wins.

Cheers!
 
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