9L, 9E, XJ JCBA executive summary

Here's how the Colgan acquisition went down from a 9E pilot's perspective:

We're in contract negotiations, and we'd just received management's "last, best and final" offer. If we didn't sign it, they were telling is NWA was gonna pull our flying and give it to someone else. We didn't have a current services agreement with them, and they (along with Mesaba) were in bankruptcy re-alignment. Well, NWA exits bankruptcy, signs a new 10 year agreement with 9E and gives us MORE flying. Oh, and they gave 9E a rather large check for signing the agreement as incentive. Management still says "We can't afford to give you what you're asking for." About a month later, 9E management buys Colgan.....and they announce new airplanes for Colgan. So, where did the financing from that come from? That big fat check from the agreement with NWA. So, our management told us they couldn't afford to give us what we wanted on the contract, but apparently they could afford to buy another airline along with new planes for the new guy. As for no growth for 9E, a few months later that argument fell dead when we got the Delta flying out of ATL.

Now, I don't see the 9E guys making out like bandits. Are we getting a pay raise? Yep, but our health insurance is doubling, which negates a pretty big portion of that. The improvements we see, such as the ability to refuse JMs and a 4 hour min day, are also seen by a majority of the Colgan pilots as well. Looking at the overall improvements, I still see Colgan as the big winners, 9E coming in second and XJ about the same as they were before.
 
You guys new to the biz please read the above carefully. It's one variation of the old whipsaw. It's how executives buy Mercedes, BMW and cigars by the case. That is a big reason why this TA is a win for all of us. To prevent a repeat of history and also to prevent us Colgan guys who are not protected in any way from being locked out of the building and left in the cold. I will be happy to trade a couple of bucks an hour for job security. I have a family to feed.
 
JrsyGuy said:
. I am plenty educated about the contract, the industry, and my job. You might need to do a little more research yourself.
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I've been operating under most of the rules that you are about to get for years. I've been paying union dues for years. I didn't go to Colgan for a reason years ago when they where a scrub 1900 outfit because of the research I have done. I wasn't will to go to a place that didn't have a contract and had poor work rules. I had several thousand hours prior to going 121 so I was a little more picky. I did the research and that's why I'm not a junior oustation based Saab FO pissing and moaning on a message board. You sound like a kid who took the first job offered out of flight school because every one on the message boards thinks Q400's are sweet and they were the only company hiring. Why do I need to do any more research? I haven't told you anything that isn't a fact. You just don't like reading it and I'm suprised you keep coming back here just to argue with every one.
 
Jrsy,
Why don't you call your REP and ask him why he voted "yes" to this TA......Oh wait thats me! I wouldn't agree to something that was no good or that was unfair. No one likes the split rate or the min-day carveout! Not even the PNCL or MSA guys. IT WAS WHAT HAD TO BE DONE.

I'll see all of you in IAD on the 2nd and 3rd, there you can tear me apart for selling out...
 
Can someone answer this for me - is JrsyGuy ABLE to vote? I keep hearing via the PM machine he has 10 months of service?
 
Avalon781ML said:
I don't understand why you are acting like a jerk after you stated inaccurate information while insulting a Colgan employee and then got called out by multiple people... I certainly hope this is an abnormality in your personality or that you are in the vast minority at 9E. You may not like us but at some point in time you will have to work with us. Its disappointing to see that your only contributions for the moment are directed at belittling the CJC pilot group.
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Vote yes on the contract.

There, are you happy? I said something without "belittling" you guys. The truth of the matter is that your elected reps worked hard to get you what you got, and to think that the pilot group making out like gangbusters on this contract is the one most vocally opposed in places, just boggles the mind.

I'll give an example of something that I think sucks in the contract (but hey, gotta look at the whole package)...

We 9E guys/gals are going to have our seniority date realigned for an integration with you guys (hope this is common knowledge)... so, that means, even though my seniority right now is Dec 07 (yes, I'm a newbie), my new date will be October 07 for integration purposes...

well, however the list shakes down, if I am next to a Colgan guy or a Mesaba guy, or even above him, on the list, and we've got approximately the same date, I have to wait 3 more months than you all before I get my annual pay raise...

Colgan guys with pay rate problems, may I present you with a chart:

Pinnacle 200 FO years 1 - 3
21
24
30

Colgan ALL FO years 1 - 3
21
26
27

So, it takes us 3 years to get to the proper "difference" between TP and Jet rate... hmmm? I'd say the new prop rates are pretty good, guys. And, to think, you could bid for an aircraft like the 200 or 900 that pays more than that.... ;)
 
matt152 said:
How do you know what your new date for integration purposes is? Is this your date of hire?
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You're at CJC, yours will be DOH..

9E was bassackwards and did DOH on the checkride.. Everyone else starts when you start class...
 
Yeah at 9E they have contract students. I guess we're there to independently audit the training program? We got a 1099 tax form after $400 a week in training (I enjoyed having to figure out how much of that I got to keep), and oddly enough, $400/wk was more than you got once you hit the line.

Upon passing checkride "welcome to Pinnacle"... then go get your picture taken for your badge etc. etc...

What I'd like to know, once the list is complete... will Pinnacle do the Checkride DOH thing or the 1st day of class DOH thing, or a combination of both depending on certificate chosen?

Oh well, only 1300 pilots to be annoyed at this development...
 
cencal83406 said:
Vote yes on the contract.

There, are you happy? I said something without "belittling" you guys. The truth of the matter is that your elected reps worked hard to get you what you got, and to think that the pilot group making out like gangbusters on this contract is the one most vocally opposed in places, just boggles the mind.

I am in no way opposed to the TA... I quite like it in fact. I do not desire any part of the 10Mil that 9E folks deserve for the delay in negotiations and I agree with you that it is rather odd that 9L people are complaining when they stand to gain the most from this entire process. Personally I think your integration "date of hire" should be the first day of class rather than the day you passed your checkride. I know exactly how hard the reps were working to get this TA...
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Let me start by saying that I'm a Colgan pilot and a member of the Joint Negotiating Committee.

I am somewhat disheartened by the attitude that some of my fellow pilots are taking with regard to this new TA. I can speak with great authority as to how much time and effort has been given, and the sacrifices made by each member of the JNC and MEC's over the past six months (even longer in some cases). The result of that work and dedication did not come easy or quickly. Personally, I am not asking anybody to blindly vote yes for this contract. Neither am I asking for your gratitude. However, I do feel that every pilot owes it to themselves, their fellow pilots, and the representatives who worked so hard to get us to this point to talk to your reps or the negotiators and understand what this contract contains. I've worked on this from the beginning and I can assure you that there is no way any pilot who has not been intimately involved with the creation of this document can have a thorough understanding of all the issues involved.

As a line pilot, I do like to read and participate in these forums. These forums are an excellent source of gossip and rumor, but they are not the place to get an understanding of a TA. That is what the roadshows are for. That is what your reps are for. Everyone needs to understand what is good and bad about this contract, especially the Colgan pilots who have never worked under an agreement before.

I think most Colgan pilots on this board can figure out who I am, if not send me a PM. I encourage you to call or email me with any questions or concerns. If not, then attend a roadshow or call your rep. Please do not disrespect myself or your fellow pilots by voting without being fully informed. We have all made ourselves fully available. Every pilot has the opportunity to talk to the decision makers and address any concerns.

pncljnc@alpa.org
 
CAPIP1998 said:
Let me start by saying that I'm a Colgan pilot and a member of the Joint Negotiating Committee.

I am somewhat disheartened by the attitude that some of my fellow pilots are taking with regard to this new TA. I can speak with great authority as to how much time and effort has been given, and the sacrifices made by each member of the JNC and MEC's over the past six months (even longer in some cases). The result of that work and dedication did not come easy or quickly. Personally, I am not asking anybody to blindly vote yes for this contract. Neither am I asking for your gratitude. However, I do feel that every pilot owes it to themselves, their fellow pilots, and the representatives who worked so hard to get us to this point to talk to your reps or the negotiators and understand what this contract contains. I've worked on this from the beginning and I can assure you that there is no way any pilot who has not been intimately involved with the creation of this document can have a thorough understanding of all the issues involved.

As a line pilot, I do like to read and participate in these forums. These forums are an excellent source of gossip and rumor, but they are not the place to get an understanding of a TA. That is what the roadshows are for. That is what your reps are for. Everyone needs to understand what is good and bad about this contract, especially the Colgan pilots who have never worked under an agreement before.

I think most Colgan pilots on this board can figure out who I am, if not send me a PM. I encourage you to call or email me with any questions or concerns. If not, then attend a roadshow or call your rep. Please do not disrespect myself or your fellow pilots by voting without being fully informed. We have all made ourselves fully available. Every pilot has the opportunity to talk to the decision makers and address any concerns.

pncljnc@alpa.org
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Well said my friend!
 
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