9L, 9E, XJ JCBA executive summary
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v1valarob
Well-Known Member
Looks right. I would have thought that after DOS+4 they would have evened them out, but even by 2015 at 10 years of service, 5 years after its all said and done, there are still going to be a Mesaba guy making more than an "old colgan" guy.
But dont let the hourly rates be your Yes or No vote. 4 hour min days (although Im not sure what to make of the min 25 guys in base stipulation) is nice! If you have a 31 day month, with 11 days off and your sitting reserve, youre already at 80 hours of credit.
By 2015 JB will be pulling in over $100K a year. Haha. Bet he never thought he would see that without having to interview again.
3enginejock
Well-Known Member
After thinking about it some more. I guess its worth it for the other gains. We will have the option to transition to the larger aircraft where the payscales are even so I am guessing thats what everyone is going to do.
v1valarob
Well-Known Member
So far the pros that stand out coming from a CJC guy are:
-4 hour min day for stations with more than 25 pilots. (currently 2hr for reserve, no min day, but charged 3.75hr for sick per day)
-$1.65 per diem (currently $1.45)
-11 days off a month, no matter what you bid (currently 10)
-75% DHD pay
-$20 per month for uniform (currently $200 a year)
-Call out times in ATL, EWR, IAD, JFK, LGA = 2:00, all others 1:45 (currently 1:30 in major hubs, 1:00 in out stations)
Tons of little stuff in here that I am loving.
Im interested in finding out if denying a junior man, is the same as denying an extension. Do I get 3 "hell no" cards for JRM and 3 for extension, or are they one in the same.
-4 hour min day for stations with more than 25 pilots. (currently 2hr for reserve, no min day, but charged 3.75hr for sick per day)
-$1.65 per diem (currently $1.45)
-11 days off a month, no matter what you bid (currently 10)
-75% DHD pay
-$20 per month for uniform (currently $200 a year)
-Call out times in ATL, EWR, IAD, JFK, LGA = 2:00, all others 1:45 (currently 1:30 in major hubs, 1:00 in out stations)
Tons of little stuff in here that I am loving.
Im interested in finding out if denying a junior man, is the same as denying an extension. Do I get 3 "hell no" cards for JRM and 3 for extension, or are they one in the same.
TUCKnTRUCK
That guy
What if everybody says no to a JM... if they go through the list again... do you have to burn a second hell no card?
or i guess just don't answer the phone would be the smart/logical answer
or i guess just don't answer the phone would be the smart/logical answer
blee256
Well-Known Member
I am pretty sure its 3 for each. At least I think thats how it currently is at Pinnacle. Kellwolf would know better. haha
A Q pilots making less than what a 74 seater is worth is just wrong. A Q pilot making less than a 50 seat pilot(as this summary says will happen by several dollars an hour) is downright shameful. That with the A and B scale on the saab should be a no vote from everyone regardless of what the rest of the contract has. Every pilot needs to be on a level playing field.
Number30FTO
Well-Known Member
1 Contract, 1 List, 1 Voice, 2 Pay-scales
chestercfi
Well-Known Member
Yeah two payscales? Very fair, also why do the CJC Airways pilots get shafted with no 4 hour min day?
L-16B
Well-Known Member
If I'm interpreting it correctly (and I may not be) if u were mesaba u will get paid more to fly the Saab than if u were colgan.... Seggy will probably kill me for posting on this so I think we should all take a deep breath and wait for the road shows.... I'm thinking/hoping we are misunderstanding....
dingo222
Well-Known Member
I think the work rules are an outstanding and are huge gains for anyone at colgan. They will completely redefine our QOL, treatment etc. Minimum day pay, 200% and an minimum of 8 hours of pay and a day off if i get JM'd on my day off? Long call reserve, 401k, sliding vacation, getting to go home on your last day of reserve early;the list goes on and on. The pay rates overall I think are fair. I'm not too thrilled with the two different rates on the saab though. Q400 pay is above industry average, which is much above where it is now. Sorry, but t-pops have never paid the same as an equal jet. Never have and never will. If you were around when the company announced buying the q400's, you would remember all of the fuss made about the rates.The pay rates month for month are on par with Horizon. In five years, the Q rates equal the 50 seat jet rates which has never happened before. Overall, it's still a 10%+ raise in every seat for a colgan pilot. Then comes the soft money, like the extra 5 hours of pay you will get for the 11 days off, more per diem, min day pay etc. Then comes the intangibles like me being able to tell scheduling to get bent on an extension or jm, or a deadhead that pays 75%, or better healthcare, 401K match.
I question the split saab rates, but I can understand why they are there. Put yourself in a Mesaba pilot's shoes. You are barely seeing a pay increase at all. However, without Colgan a lot of Mesaba pilots would be staring at a furlough.I wish they would have just put everyone under one saab payscale and been done with it. Overall, I like what I see in the summary. The windfall is in the details for colgan pilots. The company is no longer going to be able to use and abuse pilots without it costing them a lot more money.
I question the split saab rates, but I can understand why they are there. Put yourself in a Mesaba pilot's shoes. You are barely seeing a pay increase at all. However, without Colgan a lot of Mesaba pilots would be staring at a furlough.I wish they would have just put everyone under one saab payscale and been done with it. Overall, I like what I see in the summary. The windfall is in the details for colgan pilots. The company is no longer going to be able to use and abuse pilots without it costing them a lot more money.
v1valarob
Well-Known Member
As a Colgan pilot, there is not one single negative, coming from what we have now. There is pretty much no reason to vote no, our QOL will be crazy if this thing gets put in.
They essentially have done away with aircraft type pay rates, they are based on the amount of seats. They do however have rates labeled as "Mesaba grandfathered 25-35 turboprop first officer" and "Mesaba grandfathered 25-35 turboprop captain"
So after this TA is voted in, I would be making $29.10hr x 75 x 12 = $26,190. An XJ Saab FO however would be paid at a rate of $34.10hr x 75 x 12 = $30,690. Which is $4500 more.
A 5th years CJC Saab CA will be making $54.97hr x 75 x 12 = $49,473. A 5th year XJ Saab CA will be making $57.61 x 75 x 12 = $51,849. So on the Captain side, there is not much of a difference at DOS. Looking at pay rate increases over time, those same CAs as of 12/1/2015, CJC CA will be making $70.65, a XJ CA will be making $73.57.
My questions will be, when a Saab XJ FO upgrades into the Saab, are they put into the regular rates, or XJ grandfathered rates? If they are put into the regular rates, the only guys that will feel "screwed" after a few years will be those Saab CJC CAs that stuck around as a CA for 5 more years, when they could have probably transitioned to a higher paying aircraft anyway.
They essentially have done away with aircraft type pay rates, they are based on the amount of seats. They do however have rates labeled as "Mesaba grandfathered 25-35 turboprop first officer" and "Mesaba grandfathered 25-35 turboprop captain"
So after this TA is voted in, I would be making $29.10hr x 75 x 12 = $26,190. An XJ Saab FO however would be paid at a rate of $34.10hr x 75 x 12 = $30,690. Which is $4500 more.
A 5th years CJC Saab CA will be making $54.97hr x 75 x 12 = $49,473. A 5th year XJ Saab CA will be making $57.61 x 75 x 12 = $51,849. So on the Captain side, there is not much of a difference at DOS. Looking at pay rate increases over time, those same CAs as of 12/1/2015, CJC CA will be making $70.65, a XJ CA will be making $73.57.
My questions will be, when a Saab XJ FO upgrades into the Saab, are they put into the regular rates, or XJ grandfathered rates? If they are put into the regular rates, the only guys that will feel "screwed" after a few years will be those Saab CJC CAs that stuck around as a CA for 5 more years, when they could have probably transitioned to a higher paying aircraft anyway.
Seggy
Well-Known Member
I encourage those at CJC to look at page 4 of the summary where you will see the gains our pilots are getting compared with the other groups. One of the companies 'religious' issues was bringing our Saab rates up to Mesaba. Simply put, they weren't going to agree to it. These Saab rates are more than we would have gotten in our own negotiations.
The Q400 is still an industry leading pay rate. If I am still here, I will be getting a $30.00 an hour (50% raise) over the course of the contract. Traditionally, in the industry, the jets pay more than the props. We were able to get them to match up and hopely next time, the Q400 rates will surpass the 50 seat jet rates.
The pay rates the way they are because of the topics you mention. Even with that, they are above industry average, and will be handsome raises for our pilots.
The Joint Negotiating Committee unanimously supports the deal and will be presenting it to the JMECs in a few weeks. From that, I suspect it will be presented to the pilot group for ratification. Become involved, go to the road shows, have your questions answered in much more depth than can be provided here, and become educated on this contract. It really is an unbelievable deal.
The Q400 is still an industry leading pay rate. If I am still here, I will be getting a $30.00 an hour (50% raise) over the course of the contract. Traditionally, in the industry, the jets pay more than the props. We were able to get them to match up and hopely next time, the Q400 rates will surpass the 50 seat jet rates.
The pay rates the way they are because of the topics you mention. Even with that, they are above industry average, and will be handsome raises for our pilots.
The Joint Negotiating Committee unanimously supports the deal and will be presenting it to the JMECs in a few weeks. From that, I suspect it will be presented to the pilot group for ratification. Become involved, go to the road shows, have your questions answered in much more depth than can be provided here, and become educated on this contract. It really is an unbelievable deal.
Seggy
Well-Known Member
When the XJ FO upgrades to the Saab he will be at the new 'regular rate'. They only stay at that 'grandfather rate' until they move out of their seat.