8 year Civilian Pilot interested in Military Aviation

Superfly7XAF said:
I thought Academy grads and ROTC cadets had to take the TBAS and get a PCSM score just like everyone else that applies via OTS. Unless the rules are different, the flight hours should directly affect you're resulting PCSM score by a couple of points. Not true?
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I don't know about ROTC but at the Academy when we took the TBAS they told us the only reason we were taking it was to set the standard for TBAS scores.....i kid you not, that's what they said.....it didn't matter for us simply because we took it all well after we received our pilot slots.
 
ian said:
I don't know about ROTC but at the Academy when we took the TBAS they told us the only reason we were taking it was to set the standard for TBAS scores.....i kid you not, that's what they said.....it didn't matter for us simply because we took it all well after we received our pilot slots.
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Wow, I had no idea. I guess since pilot slots are common place there it really doesn't matter for you guys. Thanks for the info.

:tmyk:
 
More importantly, civil flight time and ratings don't count in the same way that they might when looking for a civilian flying job.

In other words, the 1400 hour guy isn't necessarily going to be selected over the 300 hour guy simply because of the flight hours. There is a *lot* more to the "whole person concept" that goes into the OTS selection criteria.
 
Prior flight time means that while everyone is studying five hours a day, you are studying for three hours and spending one hour helping a buddy study and another hour helping another buddy with a practice sim. And in my case skip five flights in the primary syllabus. I had a good chunk of time and spent most of my free time help all of my buddies, especially through RIs.

The OCS and BDCP applications are the same you are just applying to different boards and competing against either OCS only or BDCP only applicants. Flight time won't hurt your application and it might help with the ASTB flight portion of the test. But it doesn't carry very much weight compared to the other stuff.
 
rpfeif said:
Prior flight time means that while everyone is studying five hours a day, you are studying for three hours and spending one hour helping a buddy study and another hour helping another buddy with a practice sim. And in my case skip five flights in the primary syllabus. I had a good chunk of time and spent most of my free time help all of my buddies, especially through RIs.
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Good call for primary, not so much in advanced. You will see ;)
 
Hambone,

I see this is about a month old discussion. But, some additional advice: I had a buddy in pilot training that had 1200 hrs previous experience as CFI/MEI/aerobatics instructor etc... He was kicked out because he could not pass his instrument check ride. Your previous experience will help you, but it may not make you any better of a military pilot than the guy with no experience. Some of the best "ball fliers" I know (guys/gals that land on an aircraft carrier) had zero flight time before going to flight school. So use your experience humbly because the average military IP doesn't care about your past. He/she cares if you can do it the military way per the guidance.

Eyes: May be a no go for pilot. Could be a WSO/NFO/NAV. The WSO's I work with are getting promoted and are becoming commanding officers at the same rate as the pilots (US Navy here, not same in other branches).
College Grades: Only thing that really matters is that you received a bachelors degree. Grades aren't really that important.
Age: you're still in the zone. Plus, there are always age waivers.
Navy flight training: They are hiring. Its more challenging than AF because you're deployed more. But its pretty amazing stuff. I have almost 400 carrier landings, 198 at night. I've never been more challenged in my life. It's great stuff. My dad was USAF pilot. He did great things too. I'd pick which ever service will take you, no matter what you might fly. You'd be stupid not to take an offer even if its flying blimps. Military flying is awesome, pay is great. I do both (civilian and military) and I love both. But military flying is a young mans game. Do it now before you're too old or before your priorities change like having kids, wife, dog, multiple houses (like me).
Army/Marine Corps: Mostly helicopters. Helicopter flying is VERY challenging too. FA18/F16/F15 all considered the best and most ellite. Well, after having flown 52 different aircraft, 4 deployments in 2 war zones, my helicopter buddies get shot at more and do more difficult stuff than you could possibly imagine. The flying is amazing. Regardless, you shouldn't turn down the opportunity to go into ANY military aviation program. Helicopters, P3's, who cares. They (us military) pay for you to get military flight training and the doors that open up for you go beyond what you can imagine.

Food for thought.
Good luck.
 
ian said:
it will come faster than you think :)
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You about to hit the flightline yet, Ian? I was supposed to do ride 4 of AR school tonight but, of course, we broke.

CUBE said:
I had a buddy in pilot training that had 1200 hrs previous experience as CFI/MEI/aerobatics instructor etc... He was kicked out because he could not pass his instrument check ride.
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That has to be the rare exception to the rule. I don't remember doing much of anything extra in primary instrument training in UPT that I didn't do beforehand civilian wise (except high penetrations and fix-to-fix, the latter I'm not even sure they make them do anymore). I mean, flying an ILS is still flying an ILS whether you're in a T-6 or a Seminole (in fact, in many respects the Seminole is more challenging). I hear guys say all the time, "but this is our way of doing one". Come on...please someone enlighten me with the real differences, because I don't recall one. Yes, there are slightly different rules (1000-2 / 500-1 for alternate mins, 3000-3 alternate required, etc.). But I tell you what; 11-217 is about to be rewritten to more align the USAF regs to the FARs, as it should be, and then guess who's going to have do alot of re-learning?

That said, formation is another animal ;-)
 
I'm in agreement with the "lots of civil time doesn't help" argument. This is especially true in the T-38 track (can't speak to how it goes over in the TONErs).

In my UPT class we had a 4,000 hour regional pilot who nearly washed out of T-37s because of the "this isn't the way I learned it" syndrome.

A stud just graduated from Vance who had a whole ton of time as a CFI, including a bunch of time teaching acro in a Marchetti. He did well in T-6s, but struggled bigtime in T-38s. He told me it was a "huge blow to his ego" and that it made him realize how much he really didn't know, since T-6s was deceptively easy.

Bottom line, unless your previous experience in civil aviation involved a lot of acro at 500 knots, formation flying, instruments at 300 knots, and landing at 160 knots...it probably won't help you all that much.
 
Hacker15e said:
I'm in agreement with the "lots of civil time doesn't help" argument. This is especially true in the T-38 track (can't speak to how it goes over in the TONErs).

In my UPT class we had a 4,000 hour regional pilot who nearly washed out of T-37s because of the "this isn't the way I learned it" syndrome.

A stud just graduated from Vance who had a whole ton of time as a CFI, including a bunch of time teaching acro in a Marchetti. He did well in T-6s, but struggled bigtime in T-38s. He told me it was a "huge blow to his ego" and that it made him realize how much he really didn't know, since T-6s was deceptively easy.

Bottom line, unless your previous experience in civil aviation involved a lot of acro at 500 knots, formation flying, instruments at 300 knots, and landing at 160 knots...it probably won't help you all that much.
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You didn't have much prior flight time prior to UPT though did you? I mean, it'd be interesting to see what the 4000-5000hr guy would have to say about it. I think it all depends on what kind of flying you were doing. CFIing (even acro) probably wouldn't prepare you for the T-38s, and flying an RJ isn't going to prepare you for driving a T-37. Flight time is flight time though, and if you just go into it with an open mind as in, "they want me to do it this way so do it this way even though I was used to doing it this other way," seems to be what everyone's saying. I don't think flight time is going to hurt you.
 
ppragman said:
You didn't have much prior flight time prior to UPT though did you? I mean, it'd be interesting to see what the 4000-5000hr guy would have to say about it. I think it all depends on what kind of flying you were doing. CFIing (even acro) probably wouldn't prepare you for the T-38s, and flying an RJ isn't going to prepare you for driving a T-37. Flight time is flight time though, and if you just go into it with an open mind as in, "they want me to do it this way so do it this way even though I was used to doing it this other way," seems to be what everyone's saying. I don't think flight time is going to hurt you.
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I agree with this. I think flight time helps, especially when trying to solo and get a better feel for the airplane. But, if you aren't willing to be open and fly the way they tell you to fly, you are going to be in trouble. We did a lot of the ALPS training, and I know the Bulgarians normally do better than the guys from Chad. The Bulgarians come to the US with around 100 some hours, the other guys come with no experience.

In many ways this is similar to civilian aviaition. Even if I have a lot of time, and I get hired to fly some jet, I need to fly it like the company wants me to (their call outs etc), which is why some companies like younger or more moldable pilots.
 
Callador said:
I agree with this. I think flight time helps, especially when trying to solo and get a better feel for the airplane. But, if you aren't willing to be open and fly the way they tell you to fly, you are going to be in trouble. We did a lot of the ALPS training, and I know the Bulgarians normally do better than the guys from Chad. The Bulgarians come to the US with around 100 some hours, the other guys come with no experience.

In many ways this is similar to civilian aviaition. Even if I have a lot of time, and I get hired to fly some jet, I need to fly it like the company wants me to (their call outs etc), which is why some companies like younger or more moldable pilots.
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Yep yep, I just did differences into our 206. I'd been flying the 207 for a year before I came here, and have around 1000hrs in 207s, and even then, some of the stuff we did at my old company we don't do here, and vice versa. Nothing wrong with that, you've just gotta be flexible and be willing to do what you've been told. If you get so entrenched into what you're doing that you can't be retrained, at that point you become useless. IMO.
 
ppragman said:
You didn't have much prior flight time prior to UPT though did you? I mean, it'd be interesting to see what the 4000-5000hr guy would have to say about it. .
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Thats me. I went to UPT with 4200 hours, an ATP, and mostly 135 single-pilot cargo. And UPT was easy. In fact, I was a reserve firefighter with the county FD in TX just to give me something to do on the weekends. Finished top in -37s and -38s and got my choice of assignment.

The key was attitude. I went to UPT with the attitude that, regardless of my experience, I was there as a student and there to learn, no matter how basic. Whatever and whereever my prior experience helped me, great; especially with cooperate and graduate: helping out my classmates whereever I could. Of course, the IPs can tell who has prior experience pretty close to out the gate, with flying. Contact was easy, instruments was super easy, form was new but not difficult, and low level was new but not exceptionally difficult. Where my experience helped was with anything to do with academics, having air sense and SA.....thus making the mental load lighter......and hands that were able to easily adapt; all made possible by a mind willing to adapt.
 
Hacker15e said:
I'm in agreement with the "lots of civil time doesn't help" argument. This is especially true in the T-38 track (can't speak to how it goes over in the TONErs).
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I don't know whether or not my prior time would have helped significantly in T-38, but it certainly helped out in T-6s (probably because most everyone else was spending brain cells learning this flying thing while I was more focused on learning all the localisms). The T-1 is essentially a civilian airplane (Beech 400) which is operated as a crew, so the one prior airline person we had did really well. Sure, there's tactical overheads, low levels, and formation to learn, but if you can fly an instrument approach and land a CRJ, you can do the same in the T-1.
 
germb747 said:
The T-1 is essentially a civilian airplane (Beech 400) which is operated as a crew, so the one prior airline person we had did really well. Sure, there's tactical overheads, low levels, and formation to learn, but if you can fly an instrument approach and land a CRJ, you can do the same in the T-1.
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Did he have spikey hair, an ipod and a backpack?
 
ppragman said:
You didn't have much prior flight time prior to UPT though did you? I mean, it'd be interesting to see what the 4000-5000hr guy would have to say about it. I think it all depends on what kind of flying you were doing. CFIing (even acro) probably wouldn't prepare you for the T-38s, and flying an RJ isn't going to prepare you for driving a T-37. Flight time is flight time though, and if you just go into it with an open mind as in, "they want me to do it this way so do it this way even though I was used to doing it this other way," seems to be what everyone's saying. I don't think flight time is going to hurt you.
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Being a former primary IP, I never saw anyone with high flight time like 4000+ hours. I think I flew with a guy who had 750 hours or so and flew with an ERAU grad who had around 450 hours. The ERAU grad should have gotten his money back...he was that bad. My take on it is this, you either have it or you don't. If you have what it takes, then having 4000 hours is only going to help. If you don't have it, then no amount of flight time is going to help.

I will say that when I went back to flying the T-34C as an IP, I had around 2000 hours flying the C-2A for 8 straight years and had developed habits over the years that took a little time to get away from. Didn't take long but I can see where habits develop, maybe bad, and flying a certain way could be an issue.

I'm talking primary only, advanced is a whole other story. Flying to the boat is an experience you won't get on the outside. All the other phase II stuff is probably going to be new to a student as well I think. I good friend of mine started primary with around 2000 hours...he had all sorts of ratings, was an aerobatic pilot, etc. He smoked both primary and advanced. He simply had what it took and that flight time was extremely beneficial in primary but he said in advanced, not so much. He fly's F/A-18A+'s in the Marine Corps and is a former TOP GUN instructor.
 
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