787 Training

BobDDuck said:
Naps didn't happen for me either, but now I normally can get a few hours in at a time if I get home before noon. And if I get in first thing in the morning at an overnight, I can often times get three hours before I force myself up.

Everybody has their own strategy, and like I said before, some trips are worse than others. North-South can be tougher than East-West (which is odd because there is less of a timezone shift). For me there is nothing worse than flying all night and then sitting in traffic for two hours to get to a hotel. I can fly all day and then do that drive no problem though. Augmented crews help. Even if your break is only two hours (and at best you are going to get 90 minutes of sleep on that), it's enough to reset your body to get through. Cumulative sleep becomes important On off days I really try to get 8+ hours, so at least I am pretty well rested going to to a trip.

One of the biggest challenges for me is forcing myself to go to sleep/wake up at "normal" hours when I am at work. Lots of people subscribe to the "sleep when you need to" philosophy, but I really try to stay on whatever timezone I'm in. We have a lot of 48 hour layovers, so you really do have a full day and a half to go do stuff. For me that meant waking up this morning at 5am (because my body clock was about 7 hours ahead so it felt kind of like noon) and I'll probably try to stay awake until 9 or 10 pm tonight. Other people would have woken up at 3am and then crashed out around 4pm. Some people use melatonin to control their sleep schedule. It gives me terrible nightmares.

Really until you try it and work up some good sleep strategies you won't know how you handle it. And apart from the rest issues, pretty much everything else about international long haul is great.
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It’s funny how many people I have heard say that melatonin gives them nightmares. I just get really vivid dreams so I actually kinda like it.
 
I sometimes dabble in maybe a 1/4 or 1/2 children’s gummy after a red eye if its a short back. Works long time. No nightmares, just a good solid 5-6 hr hard sleep. I keep the dose super low because a little is kinda all you need. Full adult dose, yeah I wouldn’t be surprised if there were side effects. Persistent grogginess being a big (and bad) one. Kinda like the feeling after taking the ambiens after taking the go pills during long combat sorties. I didn’t realize it until I thought about it just now, but i am probably more well versed in performance enhancing supplements than I would have admitted.
 
///AMG said:
I sometimes dabble in maybe a 1/4 or 1/2 children’s gummy after a red eye if its a short back. Works long time. No nightmares, just a good solid 5-6 hr hard sleep. I keep the dose super low because a little is kinda all you need. Full adult dose, yeah I wouldn’t be surprised if there were side effects. Persistent grogginess being a big (and bad) one. Kinda like the feeling after taking the ambiens after taking the go pills during long combat sorties. I didn’t realize it until I thought about it just now, but i am probably more well versed in performance enhancing supplements than I would have admitted.
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IMG_4521.jpeg
 
BobDDuck said:
Naps didn't happen for me either, but now I normally can get a few hours in at a time if I get home before noon. And if I get in first thing in the morning at an overnight, I can often times get three hours before I force myself up.

Everybody has their own strategy, and like I said before, some trips are worse than others. North-South can be tougher than East-West (which is odd because there is less of a timezone shift). For me there is nothing worse than flying all night and then sitting in traffic for two hours to get to a hotel. I can fly all day and then do that drive no problem though. Augmented crews help. Even if your break is only two hours (and at best you are going to get 90 minutes of sleep on that), it's enough to reset your body to get through. Cumulative sleep becomes important On off days I really try to get 8+ hours, so at least I am pretty well rested going to to a trip.

One of the biggest challenges for me is forcing myself to go to sleep/wake up at "normal" hours when I am at work. Lots of people subscribe to the "sleep when you need to" philosophy, but I really try to stay on whatever timezone I'm in. We have a lot of 48 hour layovers, so you really do have a full day and a half to go do stuff. For me that meant waking up this morning at 5am (because my body clock was about 7 hours ahead so it felt kind of like noon) and I'll probably try to stay awake until 9 or 10 pm tonight. Other people would have woken up at 3am and then crashed out around 4pm. Some people use melatonin to control their sleep schedule. It gives me terrible nightmares.

Really until you try it and work up some good sleep strategies you won't know how you handle it. And apart from the rest issues, pretty much everything else about international long haul is great.
Click to expand...
I actually got decent at napping/day sleeping after a redeye but it usually required me to be awake to the point of total exhaustion. The pre redeye nap after I’ve only been <10 hours just never happens.
Had to give up the melatonin years ago. Sporadic success anyway and once I had it actually make me sick so that was the end of that.
 
Years of freight dawg'in night flying gave me opportunities to try different sleep aides and melatonin. The sleeping pills that worked left me hung over the next day and melatonin did nothing much for me. I'm still a bit of an insomniac and recently found ZZZ quil non-alcohol (dang) and non-habit forming liquid to work pretty well with no after effects. It has a particular active ingredient that works for me and as a liquid it's easy to take half a dose. I'm a big believer in the stuff now even though it's kinda expensive.
 
I like the sleep 3 melatonin. Take one about 2 hours before bedtime and I'm usually out for 12 hours. Works wonders when I'm working a 12 day shift overseas. 6 years flying the whale, I find that sticking to east coast time helps as well.
 
SFCC/UND said:
I like the sleep 3 melatonin. Take one about 2 hours before bedtime and I'm usually out for 12 hours. Works wonders when I'm working a 12 day shift overseas. 6 years flying the whale, I find that sticking to east coast time helps as well.
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One of the problems with melatonin supplements is that the dosages are rarely consistent. 5mg dose in one bottle has distinctly different dosage levels than in another.

I've found 10mg gummies to be too much, but 5mg seem to work out okay for me. 5mg quick-dissolve tablets of some brand seem to be more potent than various 5mg gummies.

See article:
aasm.org

Study finds that melatonin content of supplements varies widely

A new study suggests that the melatonin content of dietary supplements often varies widely from what is listed on the label.
aasm.org aasm.org

I've found a couple brands that have been consistent for me, but it took some experimenting.
 
First day of training today. Really cool plane. I’d recommend anyone going to the 78 fly the 73 first just to appreciate the 78 even more.

The good: It has a tray table. I did not know that. Sure, it’s on your side and not in front, but it’s there.

The bad: The touch pad is very meh.
 
Yeah you have to find what works for you individually. I generally will flip time zones and I naturally start getting sleepy when I’m about 10 hrs from my alarm time.

But that doesn’t work for everyone, well, maybe anyone. Ha! :)
 
With medevac schedules I use (abuse?) melatonin quite a bit (currently posting from Bellingham aviation services where is is 0030 local) it works well for me but there’s a magic window of sleepiness after taking it if I take it too early I’ll overshoot the window and not be able to sleep.

The #1 best thing for sleep tho is to keep the doom rectangle plugged in on the other side of the room instead of on the night stand.
 
Last edited:
derg said:
Yeah you have to find what works for you individually. I generally will flip time zones and I naturally start getting sleepy when I’m about 10 hrs from my alarm time.

But that doesn’t work for everyone, well, maybe anyone. Ha! :)
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I get back from a 6-day and I'm just kinda like :confused: for about 24 to 30 hours.
 
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