787 to the flight line

[USMCmech]

How do they certify pilots (type ratings) on a brand new aircraft design?

I guess what i'm asking is, if no one has flown that type of plane, who is qualified to fly it? Some one with lots of 777 time? Some one with lots of Boeing experience? Some one with lots of wide-body time?

The first pilots to fly any type of plane are certified test pilots from the manufacturer.

Boeing's flight test department handles all the flying of the airplane (which is currently an experimantal) until it is certified by the FAA. With large transport airplanes the FAA is there on hand watching over their shoulders. They have to fly it through every possible scenerio, in every possible configuration.

Once the airplane is certified by the FAA they will issue type ratings to pilots through the normal process. Boeing usually works hand in hand with Flight Safety to develop the training course. Based on things they think the pilots need to know, and things that show up durring the certification process.

For deliveries "Production Test" pilots fly each brand new airplane to make sure it works properly.

 

[flyboywbl]

The first pilots to fly any type of plane are certified test pilots from the manufacturer.

Boeing's flight test department handles all the flying of the airplane (which is currently an experimantal) until it is certified by the FAA. With large transport airplanes the FAA is there on hand watching over their shoulders. They have to fly it through every possible scenerio, in every possible configuration.

Once the airplane is certified by the FAA they will issue type ratings to pilots through the normal process. Boeing usually works hand in hand with Flight Safety to develop the training course. Based on things they think the pilots need to know, and things that show up durring the certification process.

For deliveries "Production Test" pilots fly each brand new airplane to make sure it works properly.

Thanks!

Yah i understand the whole type rating the FAA gives after testing. I just did not know how they get the plane on the line with pilots with zero hours in type.

 

[BobDDuck]

Nice to see it isn't being held together by duct tape this time around.

 

[Cessnaflyer]

Once the airplane is certified by the FAA they will issue type ratings to pilots through the normal process. Boeing usually works hand in hand with Flight Safety to develop the training course. Based on things they think the pilots need to know, and things that show up durring the certification process.

I thought Alteon does the training.

 

[Orange Anchor]

How do they certify pilots (type ratings) on a brand new aircraft design? Does Boeing have factory training for Chief Pilots so they can check type their company's pilots?

I was at the CAE sim factory last year and they had their 787 sim up and running with most systems. I believe the pilots train on the sim and after the airplane is certified, they then have to do a type ride. ??? I was down at Gulfstream a few years ago and one of the lead test pilots was doing a type ride with a Fed. The Fed had just completed the sim a few months earlier and the test pilot had been with the airplane almost from first flight. He even had to go through an oral with the FAA guy.

I guess what i'm asking is, if no one has flown that type of plane, who is qualified to fly it? Some one with lots of 777 time? Some one with lots of Boeing experience? Some one with lots of wide-body time?

Thanks!

First, the fidelity of sims is such now that you get your type in the box and the first time you fly the airliner, it is with pax on board.

Also the Boeing training subsidiary, Alteon, is building 787 sims. Besides the sim in Seattle, Alteon will also install 787 simulators in Tokyo, London, Shanghai, Singapore and Minneapolis.

CAE has built and sold 787 sims to Qantas and China Eastern.

 

[SpiraMirabilis]

Don't need a type rating for an experimental aircraft.

 

[Pablo]

Those engine nacelles are kickass!

 

[derg]

I was at the CAE sim factory last year and they had their 787 sim up and running with most systems. I believe the pilots train on the sim and after the airplane is certified, they then have to do a type ride. ??? I was down at Gulfstream a few years ago and one of the lead test pilots was doing a type ride with a Fed. The Fed had just completed the sim a few months earlier and the test pilot had been with the airplane almost from first flight. He even had to go through an oral with the FAA guy.

That Wasn't Henry (Ed) Cicci, was it?

 

[Orange Anchor]

That Wasn't Henry (Ed) Cicci, was it?

Don't know if it was Cicci. Was he a Gulfstream DPE/Examiner?

I didn't meet the Fed but was going over the POH for numbers. One of the test pilots was there and preparing for the oral. One of the other test pilots said, "Be sure to know how and when the battery is charged."

I thought, "... here's a guy who has flown the airplane for maybe a few hundred hours, worked on the systems and some guy fresh out of the sim wants to know how and when the battery is charged?"

There are some things an aviator needs to know and the balance between useful knowledge and a rite-of-passage laundry lists seems to be a difficult target. Questions like, "What 7 things happen when I push this button" test memory and little else. And "When and how is the battery charged?" may test memory of the system but more important is what happens if the battery doesn't charge.

anyway, the Gulfstream guys seemed okay with a few of the examiners but one was the subject of 'watch out'.

 

[Buzo]

NWA/DAL has a 787 training department up and running, and we already have a sim. The training department is working with Boeing flight test on the programs, and all training will be done in house.

 

[Polymox]

How do they certify pilots (type ratings) on a brand new aircraft design? Does Boeing have factory training for Chief Pilots so they can check type their company's pilots?

Thats how we usually do it at the flight school. When we got the Cessna 400, our boss went to Wichita for factory training so he could teach us to fly it.

I guess what i'm asking is, if no one has flown that type of plane, who is qualified to fly it? Some one with lots of 777 time? Some one with lots of Boeing experience? Some one with lots of wide-body time?

I'm assuming Boeing also makes the 787 sim to type people in as well.

I have no idea how this stuff works, please, some one drop me a line.

Thanks!

You can also have a look at

61.31(b) Authorization in lieu of a type rating. A person may be authorized to operate without a type rating for up to 60 days an aircraft requiring a type rating, provided --

(1) The Administrator has authorized the flight or series of flights;
(2) The Administrator has determined that an equivalent level of safety can be achieved through the operating limitations on the authorization;
(3) The person shows that compliance with paragraph (a) of this section is impracticable for the flight or series of flights; and
(4) The flight --

(i) Involves only a ferry flight, training flight, test flight, or practical test for a pilot certificate or rating;
(ii) Is within the United States;
(iii) Does not involve operations for compensation or hire unless the compensation or hire involves payment for the use of the aircraft for training or taking a practical test; and
(iv) Involves only the carriage of flight crewmembers considered essential for the flight.
​

(5) If the flight or series of flights cannot be accomplished within the time limit of the authorization, the Administrator may authorize an additional period of up to 60 days to accomplish the flight or series of flights.
​