777 strikes approach lights on departure 9/15

Alchemy said:
I'm reading they took off from T1 intersection at runway 9 which is only ~8500 feet, vice 13,000 for full length, not much for a fully laden 777-300 destined for Doha. They probably "forgot" to get new performance data for the intersection and used their full length thrust and flap setting.
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Wonder what the reason was for an intersection takeoff? Not much is generally gained from that in any normal ops for a large/heavy jet, apart from runway behind you right from the get go, in this case a significant amount of runway.
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
I can't speak for Qatar, but in the UAE unions are outlawed. Probably something very similar in Qatar.


Seggy, you can't say "non-union" had to do with a lack of safety culture. I'd put our safety culture up to par with any legacy airline here even before we were ALPA. Now I can't speak for Emirates or Qatar, but just trying to make a point that just because you don't have a union doesn't mean you don't have a safety culture.
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I can as well.

Colgan had a horrific safety culture prior to unionization that lead to an accident.
 
As I understand it from Qatar insiders who don't want to be identified. The plane was never in danger, the damage was limited to the Chemtrail system.

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MikeD said:
Wonder what the reason was for an intersection takeoff? Not much is generally gained from that in any normal ops for a large/heavy jet, apart from runway behind you right from the get go, in this case a significant amount of runway.
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A couple scenarios from the safety of my couch:

a. Mission oriented. "Can you take an intersection departure?" "Sure!"
b. Impatience. Might have been number one billionty in line.
c. Could have been disoriented and maybe thought he was at the end. Runway position (performance data vs geographic position), departure, first fix - "Am I where my performance data says I should be?"
d. Running from the "law". Maybe Roscoe P. Coltrane was on Bandit's tail and he had to geet up on outta there on the double.
 
Derg said:
I can though.

If you don't have a system in place where you're allowed to speak up or have some sort of protection if you make a safety decision the company isn't happy with, it affects safety.
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True, and the EK Melbourne incident is evidence. Not cool when the first thing they do when the 2 pilots (active crew, not relief) got back to Dubai were given resignation papers.

OTOH, if crashes are looked at, the record of Emirates, Qatar, and Etihad speak for themselves. Etihad is a relative newcomer, but EK has been around since 1985 and Qatar since 1994.
 
MikeD said:
Wonder what the reason was for an intersection takeoff? Not much is generally gained from that in any normal ops for a large/heavy jet, apart from runway behind you right from the get go, in this case a significant amount of runway.
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Again, devils advocate: if the number say we can do an intersection takeoff, there isn't really a reason to ask for additional taxi time to get full length.

I've heard of, but not first hand, of guys declaring "min fuel" right after takeoff, heading to Asia.

I rarely do intersection take offs in my Stinson, but at the RJ and current place, in transport size jets, we do it all the time, because our "numbers" allow for it. (Comma splice?)
 
Cherokee_Cruiser said:
True, and the EK Melbourne incident is evidence. Not cool when the first thing they do when the 2 pilots (active crew, not relief) were given resignation papers.

OTOH, if crashes are looked at, the record of Emirates, Qatar, and Etihad speak for themselves. Etihad is a relative newcomer, but EK has been around since 1985 and Qatar since 1994.
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Ehh, those are relatively "young" carriers and I bet you a lot of stuff gets brushed under the rug.

A major airline in the United States can't even have a little frozen blue juice land on someone's cotillion without it making NBC Nightly News and Chuck Schumer demanding a national investigation about that and TARMAC delays.
 
Derg said:
Ehh, those are relatively "young" carriers and I bet you a lot of stuff gets brushed under the rug.

A major airline in the United States can't even have a little frozen blue juice land on someone's cotillion without it making NBC Nightly News and Chuck Schumer demanding a national investigation about that and TARMAC delays.
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Yes, but that's largely a product of rating-driven newscasts, of which we have faaaaaaar too many.
 
Nark said:
Again, devils advocate: if the number say we can do an intersection takeoff, there isn't really a reason to ask for additional taxi time to get full length.

I've heard of, but not first hand, of guys declaring "min fuel" right after takeoff, heading to Asia.

I rarely do intersection take offs in my Stinson, but at the RJ and current place, in transport size jets, we do it all the time, because our "numbers" allow for it. (Comma splice?)
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It's not a trick question, am genuinely curious. And if the takeoff numbers check, then I understand the reasoning.

It's just a tradeoff for extra runway available for an abort, beyond what the numbers allow for or take into account. A few hundred feet, I could see. ~4000+ feet in this case, that's a significant tradeoff, it would seem.
 
Seggy said:
You are just lying now in an attempt to make a point. Things got a lot better after the accident.
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ALPA was already on property when the accident happened. And even without ALPA, Colgan would have been forced to improve after the accident or else have their operating certificate revoked.
 
It's not just the abort, it's also crossing 35' on the DER and first/second segment climbs. These guys under rotated or grossly neglected to verify the intersection takeoff (probably apparent).
@ppragman told me once: extra runway is the cheapest insurance policy one can purchase. Which arguably saved my butt one day. That's a quick beer story.
 
Derg said:
Feel it, not feel it, heck you can run into all sorts of stuff in a large airplane and probably never know.

My question is how low dow you have to be in order to impact approach lights? And what in the world was going on?

I think we need a checklist item about reminders about TERPS criteria and first phase climb performance.
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Oh no, here we go again..........;)
 
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