560XL down in CT

Crockrocket94 said:
Doable in an excel, we used to fly a C650 in and out of a 4000' strip regularly, bleeds off takeoff, but it could do it. It wasn't like we were flying for 4 hours after we left. Usually it was an hour or 1.5 hour flight MAX. XL had better TO numbers...

Sad to hear.
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Jimmy_Norton said:
Anyone know what the facility with all the piping is? Looks like something related to a natural gas pipeline. This is about halfway between the departure end of the runway and where the airplane came to rest. Would have been bad news had the airplane hit that. View attachment 60693
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Pretty sure it is a gas line station. Looks like an orange and white pipeline marker outside the fence.
 
Jimmy_Norton said:
Anyone know what the facility with all the piping is? Looks like something related to a natural gas pipeline. This is about halfway between the departure end of the runway and where the airplane came to rest. Would have been bad news had the airplane hit that. View attachment 60693
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I spent over 10 years with SoCalGas and did a lot of remote facility work. Does not look like a natural gas facility to me.

The pipes are too small and what's the generator for?

My guess, and it's only a guess, a water well.
 
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It's a gas transmission line according to this:

NPMS Public Viewer

pvnpms.phmsa.dot.gov pvnpms.phmsa.dot.gov

This guy is local and took some pictures of the runway and the location afterwards. Looks like something(engine failure?) happened on the takeoff roll and they tried their best to reject the takeoff but were going too fast, judging by the skidmarks. The runway is elevated about 20' above the surrounding terrain so it appears they got airborne once they launched off the end of the runway just by velocity alone and that took them to the crash site.

 
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FlyingAccountant said:
It's a gas transmission line according to this:

NPMS Public Viewer

pvnpms.phmsa.dot.gov pvnpms.phmsa.dot.gov

This guy is local and took some pictures of the runway and the location afterwards. Looks like something(engine failure?) happened on the takeoff roll and they tried their best to reject the takeoff but were going too fast, judging by the skidmarks. The runway is elevated about 20' above the surrounding terrain so it appears they got airborne once they launched off the end of the runway just by velocity alone and that took them to the crash site.

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I'll wait for Dan Gryder's take on it thank you very much!

:sarcasm:
 
FlyingAccountant said:
It's a gas transmission line according to this:

NPMS Public Viewer

pvnpms.phmsa.dot.gov pvnpms.phmsa.dot.gov

This guy is local and took some pictures of the runway and the location afterwards. Looks like something(engine failure?) happened on the takeoff roll and they tried their best to reject the takeoff but were going too fast, judging by the skidmarks. The runway is elevated about 20' above the surrounding terrain so it appears they got airborne once they launched off the end of the runway just by velocity alone and that took them to the crash site.

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These pictures are gut wrenching.
 
Definitely not playing NTSB investigator and suggesting a cause, but rather just an observation:

It appears that both TRs are stowed in those photos, which is inconsistent with RTO or uncommanded TR deployment.
 
He lost me at ABS... call it what it is... ANTI... SKID...

Maybe they should have pilots that know the airplane discuss the merits of what caused an XL to go off the end... instead of a guy who probably hasn't flown that plane.... but what do I know...
 
www.kathrynsreport.com

Cessna 560 Citation XLS+, N560AR: Fatal accident occurred September 02, 2021 near Robertson Field Airport (4B8), Plainville, Hartford County, Connecticut

This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final repor...
www.kathrynsreport.com www.kathrynsreport.com

Sounds like the parking brake was activated. The lever is on the left side of the cockpit near the pilot's left knee and there is no warning if it's activated on takeoff. The parking brake lever and the valve were found in the activated position. If the co-pilot was flying, there would have been no way for him to have known the PB was activated. The short runway didn't give them much time to figure out what was going on.

A similar incident happened in Australia back in 2015 that resulted in an overrun without injuries. The report has some great pictures to illustrate:

 
Well, no way other than “gee, it seems like it’s taking a lot more power to get this thing rolling than normal…”
 
Fixtur said:
Well, no way other than “gee, it seems like it’s taking a lot more power to get this thing rolling than normal…”
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Sure, except if this is in fact the case with this accident, it's exactly why the parking break is tied to the TO config button in every airliner I've flown.

Both engines don't have to be running to get a Takeoff OK, but the brake has to be released.
 
Boris Badenov said:
I mean I guess I'll be the dumbass (as ever) who asks how the hell they got to the runway with the parking brake engaged.
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Reading that ATSB report, it sounds like the "parking brake" is really a valve that latches whatever brake pressure is developed from application of the pedals. I.e., pull the parking lever and mash fully on the pedal, you get full braking force until the lever is back in the off position. But pull the lever and just blip the brakes, you get a constant application of partial brakes.

From the report it is unclear what prevents the lever from being in an intermediate position (not fully on or fully off ... maybe a spring or some system pressure on the valve?), or what specific potential failure mode of the parking brake valve could retain partial pressure on the brakes.
 
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