50 Hours X/C for Instrument?

N

nycronnie23

Well-Known Member
Hey! I just passed my private pilot checkride via part 61 recently. I have a question regarding the 50 hours x/c for instrument rating via part 61...are those 50 hours x/c by yourself or do you have to fly with an instructor? can you time-build with somebody else and split the cost half and half?


Thanks
Any response would be great, because I have different pilots and aviation professionals telling me different things
 
It is PIC cross country time, which means you may take someone along with you to split the cost. However, for it to count you must be the acting Pilot in Command. I'm only 16 time building my PIC X-country hours so mine must be solo. Enjoy taking your friends to cool places my friend!
 
I did my Instrument Part 61, and I did most of my XC time with my CFII because of the 40 hour instrument requirement. The way we did it was that each flight we did was a cross-country under the hood. This was great because I got both the instrument time as well as the XC time and I shot TONS of different approaches, which helped me have a better understanding of instrument approaches, rather than memorizing specific approaches.

But to answer your question: the 50 hours XC only has to be PIC, so you can do it with or without an instructor as long as your PIC during the flight. I'd bring someone along to make it cheaper :)

Hope that helps.
 
sfzpilot said:
I did my Instrument Part 61, and I did most of my XC time with my CFII because of the 40 hour instrument requirement. The way we did it was that each flight we did was a cross-country under the hood. This was great because I got both the instrument time as well as the XC time and I shot TONS of different approaches, which helped me have a better understanding of instrument approaches, rather than memorizing specific approaches.

But to answer your question: the 50 hours XC only has to be PIC, so you can do it with or without an instructor as long as your PIC during the flight. I'd bring someone along to make it cheaper :)

Hope that helps.
Click to expand...

That is a very good way to do it. You need the 50XC to take the checkride, not start the training. Since you're going to be burning avgas anyway you might as well make the most of it.

Take a few hours, including some in the sim, to get the nuts and bolts of IFR down and then move on to the suggestion above. It will make you a very well rounded IFR pilot and save you cash in the long run.
 
Hey sfzpilot & esa17, thats a great idea that I never even thought of...so the recommended steps is to first get in a sim to get the basic idea of IFR down and then go on my 40 hours X/C with my Instructor and do instrument time as well by going under the hood & i can either do the entire 50 hours with my instructor or just do the other 10 hours with another pilot to split the cost?

thanks so much
gonna call my flight school and tell them thats what i wanna do
 
I did the majority of my 50 hours time building doing long cross country VFR trips (200-700 miles). I figured I would still need to get to 250 hours anyhow to complete the commercial so I used it as a great excuse to do a lot of long trips. I had an absolute ball with it and loved every minute of it. I even organized several club fly/camp ins. Here I was at 19, the youngest guy in my club by about 20 years motivating the group to go camping. It was great fun!

Looking back on all my time building I don't know if I can remember a single flight I took that was just around the local area, I was always going somewhere and never the same place twice. Have a great time with it!
 
Ayork62493 said:
It is PIC cross country time, which means you may take someone along with you to split the cost. However, for it to count you must be the acting Pilot in Command.
Click to expand...
Small correction - You do not need to be acting as pilot in command; you only need to be able to log the time as PIC and xc.

For private pilots building cross-country time for the instrument rating that translates to
  1. sole manipulator of the controls of an aircraft you are rated for
  2. performing both the takeoff and the landing on a qualifying xc flight.

Cronnnie, on the splitting, that's fine depending on what you mean by splitting. The rules require that the pilot who logs the time as a xc do the flying including the takeoff and landing. So no mid-route change of the controls. And, safety pilots can't log xc, even on flights where they can log PIC. Flight where you fly somewhere and your buddy flies back are fine. So are flights where you do all the flying and split the costs with a friend because you both want to go to the destination for some fun (which can really make those trips a blast!).

Sorry, for you to bring back to the "I have different pilots and aviation professionals telling me different things," I'm out of town and don't have the references, other than handy. 61.51(e) for logging PIC time and 61.1 for logging xc time. But if you go to the FAA's Chief Counsel interpretation site and put cross country in the search box, you'll easily find the formal interpretations issues in the past couple of years on the logging of xc time by only the person flying the airplane.
 
MidlifeFlyer said:
Small correction - You do not need to be acting as pilot in command; you only need to be able to log the time as PIC and xc.

For private pilots building cross-country time for the instrument rating that translates to
  1. sole manipulator of the controls of an aircraft you are rated for
  2. performing both the takeoff and the landing on a qualifying xc flight.

Cronnnie, on the splitting, that's fine depending on what you mean by splitting. The rules require that the pilot who logs the time as a xc do the flying including the takeoff and landing. So no mid-route change of the controls. And, safety pilots can't log xc, even on flights where they can log PIC. Flight where you fly somewhere and your buddy flies back are fine. So are flights where you do all the flying and split the costs with a friend because you both want to go to the destination for some fun (which can really make those trips a blast!).

Sorry, for you to bring back to the "I have different pilots and aviation professionals telling me different things," I'm out of town and don't have the references, other than handy. 61.51(e) for logging PIC time and 61.1 for logging xc time. But if you go to the FAA's Chief Counsel interpretation site and put cross country in the search box, you'll easily find the formal interpretations issues in the past couple of years on the logging of xc time by only the person flying the airplane.
Click to expand...

Here is the link:

http://www.faa.gov/about/office_org...rpretations/data/interps/2009/Louis Glenn.pdf
 
So hold up, I'm unfortunatly only 16 attempting to build my PIC X-country hours for my instrument rating. If I'm correct since I lack a PPL if my instructer were to coming I cannot be the PIC, is that correct? If I'm wrong it'd save me a considerable amount of money so I could get the 40 hours of sim. instrument in.
 
Ayork62493 said:
So hold up, I'm unfortunatly only 16 attempting to build my PIC X-country hours for my instrument rating. If I'm correct since I lack a PPL if my instructer were to coming I cannot be the PIC, is that correct? If I'm wrong it'd save me a considerable amount of money so I could get the 40 hours of sim. instrument in.
Click to expand...

Yes. You are not rated for the airplane until you get your PPL.
 
Hey!! I understand most of the scenarios presented by most of you guys, however one quick questions lets say me (PPL License) and somebody else (PPL License) decided to try to build the 50 hours cross country/pic time how can that work if we both need those hours?

thanks
i personally believe the idea of flying the 50 hours cross country with instructor for the 40 hours instrument is the best/cost efficent/great learning experience idea
 
Ayork62493 said:
So hold up, I'm unfortunatly only 16 attempting to build my PIC X-country hours for my instrument rating. If I'm correct since I lack a PPL if my instructer were to coming I cannot be the PIC, is that correct? If I'm wrong it'd save me a considerable amount of money so I could get the 40 hours of sim. instrument in.
Click to expand...


that is correct.

Do some XC flights by yourself and build it that way. it sucks that you don't have the age for a PPL yet but if you solo XC, it counts as XC and PIC and XC flights are always a learning experience!
 
nycronnie23 said:
Hey!! I understand most of the scenarios presented by most of you guys, however one quick questions lets say me (PPL License) and somebody else (PPL License) decided to try to build the 50 hours cross country/pic time how can that work if we both need those hours?

thanks
i personally believe the idea of flying the 50 hours cross country with instructor for the 40 hours instrument is the best/cost efficent/great learning experience idea
Click to expand...

Here is something I give to my students as an example. It should be correct, based on the LOI I posted above.

Two pilots may both legally log PIC time in an airplane under the following conditions:


Pilot A will be logging PIC under 61.51(e). Anytime a pilot is flying an airplane they are rated for, they may log the time as PIC, as long as they are the sole manipulator of the controls. Pilot A will need to wear a view limiting device and log simulated instrument time with a safety pilot, Pilot B.

Pilot B agrees to act as PIC for the flight. Pilot B may log PIC time during all of the time that Pilot A is flying under simulated instrument conditions. Pilot B may NOT log this time as cross country.


Example: 2.0 flight time from KGKY to KSAT.

Pilot A logs 2.0 flight time, 2.0 PIC time, 2.0 Cross Country time, and 1.8 simulated instrument. Pilot A also writes the name of the safety pilot, Pilot B in his/her logbook.

Pilot B logs 1.8 flight time, 1.8 PIC time and may not log cross country time. Pilot B is not required to write anyone’s name in their logbook. Pilot B is only logging 1.8, as Pilot A was not wearing the view limited device during taxi and runup.
Click to expand...
 
I would suggest you do a bit of both. Make sure when you book a lesson, plan to always do a bit more time and pay a bit more for each lesson, practice an IFR departure and shoot an approach at an airport 50+ nautical miles away. Touch the wheels once there. You can do other approaches on the way back, at other airports, as long as the first airport you touched the wheels was >50 nm away. Make sure you plan and clearly log it that way to avoid confusion with the DPE who reviews your log book. Everything done with your instructor is cross country in that lesson. Should work out to about 2.1 per lesson. The first ones might be a bit longer until you get the feel for the clearances. You don't need to file IFR - just have your instructor simulate giving you a clearance and then you fly it.

Fill the rest of the 50 hours with your sharing program as Mojo directed. The detailed example was dead on. The only thing I have seen is when you do this, be careful as to how much time you put as hood. If you did a departure, and a touch and go, and a landing back at home and you put down 1.8 out of 2.0 as hood that might be excessive.
 
thanks falcon, yea thats what im gonna plan to do, do some time building with another pilot and then using most of the time with an instructor for IFR training

quick question to everyone; how long does it take to get an IFR rating? (estimated)
 
nycronnie23 said:
thanks falcon, yea thats what im gonna plan to do, do some time building with another pilot and then using most of the time with an instructor for IFR training

quick question to everyone; how long does it take to get an IFR rating? (estimated)
Click to expand...


That is also something I wonder. i have 26 XC (22 or 21 PIC XC) and I'm starting training in about november and can fly probably around 3-5 hours a week.
 
falcon20pilot said:
I would suggest you do a bit of both. Make sure when you book a lesson, plan to always do a bit more time and pay a bit more for each lesson, practice an IFR departure and shoot an approach at an airport 50+ nautical miles away. Touch the wheels once there. You can do other approaches on the way back, at other airports, as long as the first airport you touched the wheels was >50 nm away. Make sure you plan and clearly log it that way to avoid confusion with the DPE who reviews your log book. Everything done with your instructor is cross country in that lesson. Should work out to about 2.1 per lesson. The first ones might be a bit longer until you get the feel for the clearances. You don't need to file IFR - just have your instructor simulate giving you a clearance and then you fly it.

Fill the rest of the 50 hours with your sharing program as Mojo directed. The detailed example was dead on. The only thing I have seen is when you do this, be careful as to how much time you put as hood. If you did a departure, and a touch and go, and a landing back at home and you put down 1.8 out of 2.0 as hood that might be excessive.
Click to expand...

Why the caveat on the first landing being more than 50 (as long as one of your landings is more than 50nm straight line distance from the point of departure) and why should the DPE care?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top