#5 in line for takeoff and the aircraft in front of you...

[Polar742]

Re: #5 in line for takeoff and the aircraft in front of you.

Might be more emotional than anything.

It's kind of like where they spend $$$ in AZ to repave and "straighten" a road that has a couple of curves in it, since there's been a number of accidents on it and now it's "unsafe". Mind you, the road itself isn't unsafe....it's just a strip of asphalt with stripes and markings that just sits there. It's the drivers that utilize that particular piece of road, who don't pay attention, who speed well past the speed limit, who cross left of center.....that's whats truly unsafe; not some piece of blacktop sitting there.

But it makes everyone feel better to know that the "unsafe road" is now safe having been rebuilt and repaved, even though nothing else has changed.

That's my line of thinking too. Just like all the Ford Explorers rolling over. Sure the recommended tire pressure was low, but come on. I've seen enough wayyyyyyyyy under inflated tires on SUVs being driven like sports cars. I just wanted to see where she's coming from with a comment like that....

 

[TheresaPilot]

Re: #5 in line for takeoff and the aircraft in front of you.

I don't see where 2 gear ups and/or a Vmc spin correlates to a specific piece of concrete. I've seen my share of accidents, fatal and embarrassing, but none of them had to do with a specific airport I was at.

Was there an especially short runway? Terrain around?

Runway 4/22 was 2500' long and I can't remember how long the other runway was (for some reason I'm thinking less than 2000'). Surrounded on 3 sides by bay.

Airport was restricted to single engine and light twin ops, but someone tried landing their Citation at the airport, went off into the bay (during high tide ~3' of water), and then tried to throttle himself out of the water. Didn't want to open the door and get out because he didn't want to ruin the interior of his aircraft. I do believe that was the last incident before Bader was officially closed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIPvs_sJMXM

I am just glad that idiots can no longer fly into that airport, honestly. I had fun while I was there, both working and flying, and it was nice to see Trump fly overtop every once in a while in the world's most fabulous helicopter to the world's most fabulous heli pad, but I am glad that people can no longer skip the 13,000' runway at ACY just for a shorter cab ride to AC.

 

[MikeD]

Re: #5 in line for takeoff and the aircraft in front of you.

but someone tried landing their Citation at the airport, went off into the bay (during high tide ~3' of water), and then tried to throttle himself out of the water.

That would've been interesting to see.

 

[TheresaPilot]

Re: #5 in line for takeoff and the aircraft in front of you.

That would've been interesting to see.

Yea. I wanna say it was 3 months after I went back to college.. But I posted a link to the YouTube where the guy actually had it all on video. I'm not YouTube posting savvy.

EDIT: The part where he's trying to get himself out of the water is about 5:30 into the video.

 

[AirmetTango]

Re: #5 in line for takeoff and the aircraft in front of you.

I am just glad that idiots can no longer fly into that airport, honestly...... I am glad that people can no longer skip the 13,000' runway at ACY just for a shorter cab ride to AC.

Instead the "idiots" are forced to mix it up with air carriers at ACY...be careful what you wish for. Next time you're complaining about having to follow a 150 or Piper Arrow on final to a 13,000 ft runway, ask yourself if you really want all of the Bader and Meigs Fields to go away - and the Arrow still may go in gear up.

Just sayin'

 

[TheresaPilot]

Re: #5 in line for takeoff and the aircraft in front of you.

Instead the "idiots" are forced to mix it up with air carriers at ACY...be careful what you wish for. Next time you're complaining about having to follow a 150 or Piper Arrow on final to a 13,000 ft runway, ask yourself if you really want all of the Bader and Meigs Fields to go away - and the Arrow still may go in gear up.

Just sayin'

Yeah, it just seemed as though Bader collected the bulk of them... As opposed to the other shoreline airports.

 

[Alchemy]

Re: #5 in line for takeoff and the aircraft in front of you.

You should've heard how pissed off jetblue got in EWR a couple weeks ago when one of our crews told them they had an access door open when they were #5 in line for takeoff (after waiting for 45 minutes probably).

If it was me, please say somehing about it; I value my crew's and my passengers' safety (not to mention my own) more than 15 minutes of inconvenience caused by a gate return. If a tire was visibly flat I'd want to at least have someone come check it out.

 

[derg]

Re: #5 in line for takeoff and the aircraft in front of you.

I didn't make the call, but another crew did. When he taxied past on the way back to the gate, it looked very abnormal.

I wasn't even paying that close of attention because I was flying relief and boredly glaring at the P61 panel.

 

[Polar742]

Re: #5 in line for takeoff and the aircraft in front of you.

Runway 4/22 was 2500' long and I can't remember how long the other runway was (for some reason I'm thinking less than 2000'). Surrounded on 3 sides by bay.

Airport was restricted to single engine and light twin ops, but someone tried landing their Citation at the airport, went off into the bay (during high tide ~3' of water), and then tried to throttle himself out of the water. Didn't want to open the door and get out because he didn't want to ruin the interior of his aircraft. I do believe that was the last incident before Bader was officially closed.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIPvs_sJMXM

I am just glad that idiots can no longer fly into that airport, honestly. I had fun while I was there, both working and flying, and it was nice to see Trump fly overtop every once in a while in the world's most fabulous helicopter to the world's most fabulous heli pad, but I am glad that people can no longer skip the 13,000' runway at ACY just for a shorter cab ride to AC.

Well, for the Citation guy, I think we've all seen that video a time or two, and it's sad and hilarious all at the same time. Knowing now that the runway was restricted to light singles and twins, he had no business being there, not the fault of the airport.

An airport like that close to a major destination is bound to attract more operations, thus creating more issues. Percentage wise, is it greater? I don't know, as I'm too lazy to look it up.

However, if I owned a Baron or a Bonanza or some other small plane, and I could be closer to my final destination, and I don't have to pay the moronic landing fees inevitably charged at a major airport, and don't have to wait in line with airliners or wait to be sequenced in with them, it's a win for me.

I saw lots of carnage at EYW. In fact, they had (maybe still have) a fenced in area where they put all the dinged up planes. Not a big deal. Cool places attract lots of people. Stuff happens. Not the airport's fault.

I saw the immediate aftermath of a Vmc (probable cause) stall-spin and watched 3 friends burn and a good friend of mine put the strut through the wing of an airplane on his first solo, and watched another person hit the nose gear and porpoise down the runway collapsing the nose gear.

None of which are the airport's fault.

 

[Divine Wind]

Re: #5 in line for takeoff and the aircraft in front of you.

In all honesty, could you even tell a tire was flat from just looking at it, especially from sitting in another plane? The few times I've had a flat, the other tire supported the weight just fine and the only way I could tell was by pushing on the flat tire and seeing it give a bit.

True, but I think the intent is whether to speak up or not if you could tell. I'd speak up. My philosophy in this case and several others when it comes to flying is "I'd rather look stupid than be stupid." Being afraid to speak up and ending up watching someone have an accident is stupid, IMHO.

FAR 61.151(c) says a person must "Be of good moral character". Moral pilots speak up when they suspect a problem.

 

[MikeD]

Re: #5 in line for takeoff and the aircraft in front of you.

FAR 61.151(c) says a person must "Be of good moral character". Moral pilots speak up when they suspect a problem.

I've always wondered how that particular requirement can be a measurable objective? By which measuring stick?

There's probably a ton of pilots who IMO don't meet that......or maybe to meet it, depending on one's interpertation.

 

[Divine Wind]

Re: #5 in line for takeoff and the aircraft in front of you.

I've always wondered how that particular requirement can be a measurable objective? By which measuring stick?

There's probably a ton of pilots who IMO don't meet that......or maybe to meet it, depending on one's interpertation.

Legally, "good moral character" falls under this: http://fsnews.findlaw.com/firmsite/attachments/LE6_c_checklist_WhatIsGoodMoralCharacter.pdf

But if we look at what professionalism means, it can take on a meaning higher than simply "no convictions". BTW, there's a joke about a job interview where the applicant says "You mean convictions, not arrests, right?"

Regardless, I agree that we have some who wouldn't measure up to a higher bar set for "good moral character".

 

[LucasM]

Re: #5 in line for takeoff and the aircraft in front of you.

doesn't really have to do with airlines, but about a week ago after i flight lesson with a student, i was helping push back the airplane. i happened to look back to make sure my student had his hands on the right part of the airplane (i.e. prop hub, not spinner) and i saw something out of the corner of my eye. a large bulge coming out of the nose tire. i didn't see it on preflight however, but i squawked after the flight when i saw it. after the mechanics looked at the tire and replaced it, they said that it was "mechanical failure" of the cords and wires inside of the tire that made it bulge. apparently it was about to blow out at any time.

 

[TheresaPilot]

Re: #5 in line for takeoff and the aircraft in front of you.

doesn't really have to do with airlines, but about a week ago after i flight lesson with a student, i was helping push back the airplane. I happened to look back to make sure my student had his hands on the right part of the airplane (i.e. Prop hub, not spinner) and i saw something out of the corner of my eye. A large bulge coming out of the nose tire. I didn't see it on preflight however, but i squawked after the flight when i saw it. After the mechanics looked at the tire and replaced it, they said that it was "mechanical failure" of the cords and wires inside of the tire that made it bulge. Apparently it was about to blow out at any time.

It's not a tumor!