ChasenSFO
hen teaser
Hey, we give damn good customer service at Skywest foo!
47 trapped on 'nightmare' flight to the Twin Cities
- Thread starter CRJDriver
- Start date
WestIndian425
Well-Known Member
Wow!! I'm off the team for a bit and all this happens?! Continental can't seem to stay off the news for the wrong reasons these days.
An interesting tidbit on the news last night, for what it's worth. The airport manager from RST was on last night and contradicted pretty much everything coming from Continental/Express Jet. He stated there were people on duty, in the airport, but the company did not want them to deplane. Granted I would no expect hom to say, "Yes, WE kept them from deplaning".
Another little diddy...There was also a Delta (branded) flight to MSP that diverted to RST. Those folks were deplaned and took a bus to MSP with no problems at all....:dunno:
It appears there was blame to lay in more than one place and everyone is trying to stay as clean as possible...
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
So, who HASN'T been lead into a sucker hole once or twice in their career? When you've got dispatch telling you, "You're on the ground in RST? Crap, listen, call me back in 20 minutes and I'll have something for you."
*wait 20 minutes*
"Oh yeah guys, listen, we can't get a hold of anybody at the airport, give me an hour."
*wait an hour*
"Listen we're thinking of trying to get you a lav dump while you're waiting, give me 30 minutes."
*wait 30 minutes*
"Well, turns out the FBO won't service you, maybe we should just get them off the plane and onto a bus, call me in 60 minutes."
*wait 60 minutes*
Continue that for the rest of the night. The fix is always "right around the corner," just like approach always says, "5 more minutes and we'll have you on the approach!" while you're holding.
I'd really like to hear from the CREW what happened, and what their interaction with dispatch was.
*wait 20 minutes*
"Oh yeah guys, listen, we can't get a hold of anybody at the airport, give me an hour."
*wait an hour*
"Listen we're thinking of trying to get you a lav dump while you're waiting, give me 30 minutes."
*wait 30 minutes*
"Well, turns out the FBO won't service you, maybe we should just get them off the plane and onto a bus, call me in 60 minutes."
*wait 60 minutes*
Continue that for the rest of the night. The fix is always "right around the corner," just like approach always says, "5 more minutes and we'll have you on the approach!" while you're holding.
I'd really like to hear from the CREW what happened, and what their interaction with dispatch was.
But how likely is that to happen? What would the company do if they were to put out what they felt happened? Would the crew be at risk by talking to the press without clearing anything with the Corp communications folks....?
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
I tried to explain this to my wife last night.
The media makes it sound so damn simple to get people off a plane. . .when they have no idea what the hell was really going on. You've got one passenger speaking out - with a lack of emotion I might add which is a nice change of pace considering the usual nonsense we see on tv - about the incident.
Dollars to donuts that he never had the full picture. Willing to bet no one did.
Nevertheless, if I was on that flight and I had a crew badge. . .I would have popped the door, walked around, and found someone. A janitor. Someone. The crew could have stayed on the plane, monitored the robots, excuse me passengers, and I would have saved the day!!
wheelsup
Well-Known Member
Since when is 60 minutes "just around the corner"? 5 minutes is just around the corner. 60? Hardly.
FlyChicaga
Vintage Restoration
We were EWR based. 60 minutes is "just around the corner."
As for a bus or van, realize that these are Continental passengers, with a Continental flight number, flying from a Continental hub to a Continental outstation. When coordinating these types of things, ExpressJet is not the one who makes that call. Mainline Continental is. It's just par for the course in how mainline management treats their express partners, however. If the crew would have done something heroic, it would have been a "Continental Express" plane. Now that the situation is reversed, it is an "ExpressJet" plane.
In my observation, there are a lot of company cultural factors that came into play here. Many stemming from our relationship with mainline, and our attempts to rebuild a relationship with them after it was destroyed via Chautauqua/SkyWest/etc... So much "trying to accomplish the mission" pressure upon us, since we're always worried about losing more flying and losing our profession.
If you really want to get into it, this is not just a "dumb captain" who didn't have the guts to step up and say, "get them off this plane." There are many other influences in play here.
stuckingfk
Well-Known Member
I think a little thinking outside the box was in order.
Last week we had flow and most of the time, the crew closes up shop and heads to sit somewhere on the airport and wait (also to make $$). Well, I refused to do that this time due to a 30 and 7 issue. If one passenger wanted off, I was toast. Turned out two wanted off, so it was the correct decision.
Some people just don't think.
Last week we had flow and most of the time, the crew closes up shop and heads to sit somewhere on the airport and wait (also to make $$). Well, I refused to do that this time due to a 30 and 7 issue. If one passenger wanted off, I was toast. Turned out two wanted off, so it was the correct decision.
Some people just don't think.
On an "official" level like "Hey, I'm the captain of Expressjet Flight blah blah blah"? Corporate communications would probably eat their lunch.
It's a good thing and a bad thing.
It's a good thing because pilots often hang themselves in front of cameras.
It's a bad thing because corporate communications waits until a media brushfire has gotten out of control and THEN tries to extinguish it.
Cruise
Well-Known Member
Stood next to him in line at the Dunkin' Doughnuts for a bit of 'go-juice' in LGA, about 1.5 yrs ago.
Alchemy
Well-Known Member
The bad news is that it's obvious that the airline in question here screwed the pooch, and somone was FLAT OUT LYING (be it the crew, dispatch, or corporate communications) about the availability of the terminal. There is policy in place which states that anyone on the plane who desires to do so MUST be let off after a 3 hour ground delay. If the terminal truly was available, "lucy has some 'splainin to do".
The good news that in 2 weeks no one will remember except the people driectly involved. I doubt that anyone outside of the aviation community even remembers that it was a company called "colgan air" that crashed flt 3407. There was similair outrage over the "baby benadryl" incident several years ago. Now it's just a fond memory.
The good news that in 2 weeks no one will remember except the people driectly involved. I doubt that anyone outside of the aviation community even remembers that it was a company called "colgan air" that crashed flt 3407. There was similair outrage over the "baby benadryl" incident several years ago. Now it's just a fond memory.
Ralgha
Well-Known Member
Right here is where I deplane. Dispatch has no say in that matter.
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
Using what gate? Your airline doesn't service this airport.
Using what air stairs? You think the FBO will let you do it for free?
Where do the pax go if they end up on the ramp? How do you herd them all while making sure they don't wander into someplace they shouldn't?
WalterSobchak
Well-Known Member
I was wondering the same thing. You can't really be on rest any ways if you are not relieved of duty(ie in the cockpit).
Ralgha
Well-Known Member
I can't answer those questions as I've never been to that airport. Suffice to say that they would be deplaned. If you can't accept that, well, that's your problem, not mine.
jtrain609
Antisocial Monster
The point I'm attempting to make, and this is the point you've obviously missed not only with my post, but with the situation that went on the other night, is that the answer to this question is much more nuanced than a simply, "I'd deplane."
How would you deplane?
That how is something you need to be able to answer as captain (which you are). If you can't come up with a respectable answer for an internet forum, I'm not sure how you'd do it out on the line when dispatch is hanging you out to dry. The EMB-145 that ExpressJet operates don't have air stairs built into them and hence, you need outside support to get people on or off the aircraft. Without that support, be it from an FBO or your company, your people are stuck on the aircraft.
Think about it for a little bit, and come back with a real response. If the company won't pay for the FBO to deplane your people (and they'll surely charge you), then you've got no way to get them off the airplane without risking injuring somebody while doing an evacuation. Until somebody on the other side drives a jet bridge up to your airplane, or you have those air stairs you've got few options.
Those options would most likely include calling the local fire department and having them bring a ladder out to the aircraft. That's certainly a viable alternative, but now you've got 50 people on the ramp without anywhere to go.
So they'll go to the hotel, right? On who's dime? The company's? They don't even know you just put 50 people onto the ramp, and if they do you'd better believe they're not happy about it. Now you've gotta find lodging and more importantly transportation to said lodging for 50 people. If the closest hotel is doing 20 minute laps with 12 people at a time, it's going to be a while before you get all the people to said hotel.
So it's not so easy as "I'd deplane," because now you've got 50 people you're liable for. What are you going to do with them, captain? Because if you don't think this one through before you dump them onto the ramp you've got some real serious problems ahead of you on this dark night in Rochester.
Ralgha
Well-Known Member
Yes, it is that easy.
See those unused airstairs over there? Go get them. That door? Unlock it. What part of being a captain do you not understand? All you need is one person with a key (fire department) and things will happen. I'll go get the damn airstairs if nobody else will. Hell you don't even need a key at most terminals, just open the door, F' the alarm, nobody pays attention to them anyway.
Hotel is not your problem, transportation is not your problem. Getting them out of that smelly POS metal tube is. Get them out of the airplane and things will happen. Make things happen. Don't see a solution, create one. That's what the captain signed up for and if he or she can't hack it, throw them out with the bath water.
Like I said, I can't give you specifics because I've never been there. If I were there, I'd tell you what would happen.
Also, if you enlist FBO services, have them bill the company, that's what it's there for.