47 trapped on 'nightmare' flight to the Twin Cities

Re: Nine hours on an ERJ.

Nick said:
What a completely unacceptable situation!!!

Declare an operational emergency and give the higher-ups a choice:
1) Passengers vacate the aircraft on the ramp (no stairs or slide on an ERJ so it'd have to be cautious and careful and wheelchair pax or elderly would need something for sure, so I'd do as Alchemy suggested and call 911 and get the local fire department over with a small ladder)

or

2) A bus pulls up to the airplane within 30 minutes

or

3) If the FBO is available then the engines will be started at once and the aircraft will be parked there and all passengers let off.


If this is how pilots are going to behave, then bring on the passenger bill of rights. If I was a passenger on this flight I'd almost want to walk up and open the door myself and jump out to the ramp.

ATROCIOUS treatment of customers and, really, human beings in general.
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Probably not the best way to get public support on the side of regional pilots and their issues.
 
Re: Nine hours on an ERJ.

Nick said:
What a completely unacceptable situation!!!

Declare an operational emergency and give the higher-ups a choice:
1) Passengers vacate the aircraft on the ramp (no stairs or slide on an ERJ so it'd have to be cautious and careful and wheelchair pax or elderly would need something for sure, so I'd do as Alchemy suggested and call 911 and get the local fire department over with a small ladder)

or

2) A bus pulls up to the airplane within 30 minutes

or

3) If the FBO is available then the engines will be started at once and the aircraft will be parked there and all passengers let off.


If this is how pilots are going to behave, then bring on the passenger bill of rights. If I was a passenger on this flight I'd almost want to walk up and open the door myself and jump out to the ramp.

ATROCIOUS treatment of customers and, really, human beings in general.
Click to expand...

Come on Nick I know you're better than this, let's wait until the facts are out. As is usually the case there are sure to be factors we haven't considered yet. It's really easy to sit here and say I would have done 1,2, or 3 but we weren't there so let's wait a bit before we crucify this crew.

I will say it seems this crew wasn't getting much in the way of support from anyone outside the aircraft...I'll leave it at that. They have my sympathy.
 
Roger said:
Airline captains.... How would you handle a situation like that? I just can't imagine clocking out and leaving your pax to sit there and rot.
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There's no way I would have let passengers stay on the plane all night. I'd work through every possible means of trying to get things worked out. Dispatch, airport management, even an FBO. But if it came down to keeping people stuck on board an RJ all night, I'll deal with the legal ramifications later. We're getting off that plane.
 
Re: Nine hours on an ERJ.

Cav said:
let's wait until the facts are out. As is usually the case there are sure to be factors we haven't considered yet.
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Normally I'd agree with you. But short of a back of rabid wolves outside the airplane I don't see any reason to keep people stuck in an aluminum tube for that long.
 
Re: Nine hours on an ERJ.

I had a couple situations similar to this in the past. One was a divert into ERI after a windshear go around in CLE. ERI was not the best choice commercially but the only choice given by Mother Nature at that point. We went there and at that time, XJT did not have service to ERI anymore. Some of the passengers were afraid after the GA and wanted to get off. One man threatened to open the emergency exit and get off one way or the other. I managed to calm him down and explain that it would be a very bad situation for everyone if he did that. I then told him and the others that I was not going to hold them hostage on the aircraft but I needed time to get it all worked out. We called the cops and had them come out to the aircraft and they informed us that anyone getting off would be arrested as they were not authorized to be on the ramp. Finally we managed to work out a deal with NWA Airlink (can't remember if it was Pinnacle or Mesaba) staff at the airport. They helped the folks off that wanted off and even got their gate checked bags. The company was supportive but told us that the checked bags had to go to their checked destination. It took a while but we were able to resolve the situation. However, it was also about 1630 so we were not faced with middle of the night issues.

Another one was a wx divert into College Station. Us and what seemed like the entire fleet were there. They managed to park us near an FBO. Our toilet was full as well and it had already been a fairly long flight. Getting fuel was difficult so we were going to be there a while. I called our ops only to find out that the lav dump equipment was broken. The Jepps had the phone number for the fueler/fbo so I called them on my cell and asked if they could service a Legacy. They said yes so I told them they could service an ERJ and to bill it to the company. Company agreed and we got the lav serviced. We also managed to get a pregnant lady off that wasn't feeling well. The final step since we were going to be there for a while was to order up some Dominos for delivery to the FBO, who then brought it out to us. We finally got the fuel to go all the way down to CRP and back up. Of course once we got in the air we were given direct so we had to hold and dump fuel. BUT, the only reason we were able to leave was because ATC said we needed to go the long way and we had the fuel while lots of others had initially fueled to go direct so they couldn't get released on the new flight plan.

Sometimes you just can't win though and can only do the best you can. The biggest challenge this crew faced was the time of day. Trying to evacuate the aircraft would have been the worst thing to do. Now you would most likely have twisted ankles/broken bones to deal with. I don't think this would be viewed as an emergency situation at that point. The passengers were inside a temperature controlled environment sitting on a leather seat. It was uncomfortable no doubt but not an emergency unless someone started getting sick and even then it would be a medical emergency only for that passenger.

If it were me I would start with the police or FBO. Get them involved as well as the port authority that runs the airport. Someone is probably a contact for situations after hours. Get them to calm the folks (the sight of a cop works wonders) and try to call in the right people to get the passengers off the aircraft. That may be the FBO or someone at an airline that could come in and help out. After all those options had been exhausted then you could start thinking of more drastic measures. In the end the crew may have done all of that and got no help from anyone. At that point there is nothing else they can do and staying on the plane was the best course of action. Last thing you need is passengers running all over the airport getting hurt and then arrested.
 
Cav said:
Come on Nick I know you're better than this, let's wait until the facts are out. As is usually the case there are sure to be factors we haven't considered yet. It's really easy to sit here and say I would have done 1,2, or 3 but we weren't there so let's wait a bit before we crucify this crew.

I will say it seems this crew wasn't getting much in the way of support from anyone outside the aircraft...I'll leave it at that. They have my sympathy.
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I do agree with you there -- the only way that the situation could have possibly gotten to the point that it did was for the crew to be 'hung out to try' . . . zero help from all other resources.

Still though, after landing at RST around midnight after having had the pax on since 9PM, that is already a full lav and no snacks left! 1AM . . . 2AM . . . those must have been long hours in the dark. 3AM . . . 4AM . . . at that point the door would have to be open. That is the length of a transatlantic flight but without anywhere to walk, to stretch, the bathroom would have been full for 3+ hours.

I do not necessarily place all of the blame on the crew.

It is, however, a disgusting way to treat the people who are funding the flight itself, no matter whose fault it was in the end.

If a passenger bill of rights of some sort needs to be passed to prevent people from being held on a jet overnight on a ramp (in a situation where customs is not an issue, this being in that category), then I guess I am shifting towards supporting that bill. Honestly if I were a passenger on this flight I think I would have declared my own little emergency and said get me off NOW, this is not what I paid for. Listening to babies crying with soiled diapers and a filthy restroom to go to after the seat gets uncomfortable is no way to spend an entire night after buying a ticket to Minneapolis.

Though I have not been a fan of any of the proposed passenger bill of rights things that have been tossed around in the past couple years, it would have at least prevented this from lasting so long.

The crew would not have felt apprehensive about taking it to the next level as far as demanding things, because they would have had the law at their back.

It would take all the stress out of the situation for the crew: decision made, people get off at 2AM.

This should never happen but it somehow does several times a year.
 
I would think an FBO helping to unload would have been wise, even call a cop over to help keep the "Security" in check.
I think the bill of rights should say the plane can't land at an airport that closes, or if a plane lands, someone is required to stay so they can deplane and at least stay in the airport. It would have been first class if the CA forked up for some pizza delivery or something.
My question is if the original crew timed out, how did they get the second crew in, if then can get a crew in, why couldn't they leave right away? Sounds like that second crew stayed with the plane throughout the night.
 
deek said:
I would think an FBO helping to unload would have been wise, even call a cop over to help keep the "Security" in check.
I think the bill of rights should say the plane can't land at an airport that closes, or if a plane lands, someone is required to stay so they can deplane and at least stay in the airport.
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I'm sorry, but a pax Bill of Rights isn't going to dictate where the plane lands. Sorry Safety and WX dictate that. The PIC makes the final call. Whether I agree or disagree with his choice it is his(hers). XE doesnt serve this airport and thus has no Ops people to get the wheels in motion on the ground. RST also has the most rediculous TSA I've come across. They treat you like you have a turban on your head even if you are the CA of the flight. Grade A country bumkin!

It would have been first class if the CA forked up for some pizza delivery or something.
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You obviously have never worked in aviation let alone a regional airline. The CA would spend more on pizza than he probably made that day. The airport is secured also. If you can't get off the plane you most certainly aren't getting a pizza guy to the plane. Pot is a bad drug it ruins lives.

My question is if the original crew timed out, how did they get the second crew in, if then can get a crew in, why couldn't they leave right away? Sounds like that second crew stayed with the plane throughout the night.
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The second crew would DH to MSP(from CLE,EWK or HOU) and ride down on a NWA family flight or through ORD on AE. They had to get the crew there first and the first scheduled flight into RST is about 9-10am I believe. XE crew scheduling couldn't call up Jesus Christ and have him miracle a crew up to RST.
 
deek said:
Thanks for being a D-Bag. Enjoy the afternoon.
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Whoa, whoa, WHOA. Knock that crap off. You made assumptions that were wrong, Walter corrected those assumptions and you call him a D-bag? Me thinks you should look in the mirror, take a bite of humble pie, and apologize.
 
Unless the doors wouldnt open, tornado or hurricane typhone tsunami conditions were present with no cover given inside...there is no excuse for this...the captain should be fired and at very least downgraded. If the fact the passengers spent 5+ hours including over nite hours is not disputed, nothing else needs to be said.
 
I'm glad my sister hasn't been on one of these flights yet. She would simply state FU, open the door and get out (even with no airstair). Guaranteed. And she's an Episcopal priest. I can't believe with this happening every now and then someone hasn't done the same yet. Ppl just kind of go crazy in there sometimes.
 
Hey...its time to boycott these cheapo SOB regionals and tell them that paying passengers wont put up with this treatment anymore! Who is with me?

[YT]K8E_zMLCRNg[/YT]

ohhh...reality check..Im on JC!
 
Sorry I blew up earlier, I just think you came of a bit holier than thou on me and it wasn't all that cool. And yes I did line service for 4 years and am currently in the process of letting go of the flying dream, just didn't work out for me. I prob won't be posting on here much anymore. Audios.
 
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