200 Below B - Help me win a bet.

[minitour]

Jepps.

Which still isn't always an exact science. Particularly when it's low. The boundaries aren't always defined by distance/radials from a VOR/navaid.

I fly slow enough that it isn't a factor, but the boss-man (who's always complaining we don't have enough hours on the airplane every month) seems to want to be doing 270 to 8 and 260 to the marker while cruising along at Mmo. You just can't convince some people... :dunno:

-mini

 

[kellwolf]

The question I have for you airline guys is how do you know your going below the Bravo? How would say an overseas carrier pilot say, flying into JFK, know he/she was vectored below Class B?

If you're using LIDOs like us, unless you've got the chart (which we only have for a select few airports, and most of the airports we fly to that are Class B are excluded), you DON'T know. ATC is SUPPOSED to tell you when you're exiting class B, but I don't think it's required and they might forget to remind you in high workload situations.

 

[queeno]

if the clrn is given " cross xxx at 11000 AT 250 knots " than no speed restriction after the fix.

if the clrn is " cross xxx at 11000 MAINTAIN 250 knots " than stay at assigned speed untill controller slows or you have to slow for an FAR speed restriction 250 below 10, 200 under class B etc.

atc has to advise only A/C landing at the primary airport of a class B if they leave the class B once thay have entered it the first time, and again when they re enter.

 

[seagull]

Jepps.

Few (any?) overseas carriers use Jepp.

 

[SpiraMirabilis]

Few (any?) overseas carriers use Jepp.

"Charts" then

 

[Louie1975]

"Charts" then

But is the boundaries of Class B clearly defined? And during a high workload situation, like being vectored for an approach in Bravo airspace, is it practical to be tracking your position related to Bravo boundaries?

In a light aircraft that does not go over 200 knots, flying IFR seems to make 'what class airspace' your in somewhat irrelevant, particularly from a practical point of view. Much more important for VFR (cloud clearance requirements).

 

[SpiraMirabilis]

The boundaries of Class B airspace are clearly defined on both the US government issue charts and Jepps... the only two I've ever used. If they're not clearly defined on some foreign chart then thats their look out, and they should probably fix that.

 

[minitour]

The boundaries of Class B airspace are clearly defined on both the US government issue charts and Jepps...

That's not entirely accurate. On the Jepp area charts, yes. Each "shelf" is depicted with appropriate altitudes for the floor and ceiling of the airspace. However, on US LO or Area charts (IFR), only the outermost boundary is depicted. The only ways you can be sure you're not under the bravo in the case of NACO/NOS chart users is to 1) Go over it 2) go around it or 3) ask.

Unless you're using VFR charts (TAC) in conjunction with your IFR charts. Of course, that only works when it's VFR and you can see the ground or the boundaries are not based on geographic features.

Take a look at the 36/100 "shelf" of the CLT Bravo to the west. It's over by Gastonia. That boundary appears to be based on a road. That's one example, but there's more. Lots around Charlotte.

If you're stuck in the soup, going into a satellite airport, the only way to know for sure would be to ask. Even the Jepps (though they'll show you the depicted airspace) won't help you figure out where you are in relation to that road at all times.

-mini