141 training in your own plane?

Brian29

Brian29

Well-Known Member
Hey all,
I am being told that I cannot train under part 141 in my own plane and that it has to be a plane on this particular flight schools line. I cant find anything in the FAR that specificly states that this is the case. Anyone here have an answer?
 
While there is no specific regulation against it, the school, if audited has to prove that our aircraft meets the requirements of 141.39 and 142.57. And the approved course material may state that specific aircraft are allowed. From what I gather, it a CYA for the school thing.
 
Why would a school want to do 141 training in your aircraft? You can only do 141 training at an approved 141 school. If they do not use their airplanes, they don't really make any dinero. Whether I could or not legally, I would say no.
 
141.39 Basically says the aircraft used in the school have to be approved. Read the paragraphs of this regulation, and if your airplane qualifies, the school can add it to their approved list - that is, submit a request to add an aircraft to their approved list.
 
Brian29 said:
Hey all,
I am being told that I cannot train under part 141 in my own plane and that it has to be a plane on this particular flight schools line. I cant find anything in the FAR that specificly states that this is the case. Anyone here have an answer?
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A 141 school has a training syllabus approved from the FAA for each category, type and model they train on, not to mention the maintenance program their planes are approved to be on to be flying at that specific flight school.

I can also think at many insurance issues, especially the one that covers the employees in case anything happens in your plane.

An other issue could be fuel, most 141 schools are not allowed to sell fuel, something to do with Taxes.

I know a guy that had the school, Flight Safety Academy, rent a 172 with G1000, just because he wanted to fly it, it was some rich Indian kid but as far as I know it was all part 61 and most of the flying solo time building fro the part 61 CPL.

why you just ask them to do the same syllabus but 61? At the same flight school mentioned above there was some students following the 141 syllabus and lesson plans but doing the ck ride part 61 (guys that already had many hours usually).
 
Why do you feel you need to do part 141? Just do it part 61 in your plane. It will probably work out cheaper and you will have more flight hours.
 
Everything said makes perfect sense. Though I was wanting to do my training through 141, 61 is the route I am gonna take. I wanted to train under 141 for the reduced hour requirements for the commercial rating and IFR but just got in touch with a friend who is a CFI and will be doing my training with him. I kinda feel like a dick because its what I should have done from the beginning. Instead of being cought up with the 141 crap I should be giving a good friend the hours while saving some considerable money.
 
Each specific airplane must be approved and added to the 141 curriculum. You won't find a reg because each training course outline is individually approved.
 
amjon said:
Why do you feel you need to do part 141? Just do it part 61 in your plane. It will probably work out cheaper and you will have more flight hours.
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The 61 route it`s not necessary cheaper then going 141, if you plan to instruct having 50 more hours when you start working does not make any difference, if you work at a Busy school you will get them in couple weeks. Some big Academies have high rates but there is a lot of smaller 141 schools that charge the same as the FBO behind the Corner, sometimes even cheaper (especially when flying multi engine), I would look for a 141 program that has a good amount of multi in it, like getting the Instrument and Commercial all in multi. If the 141 school does in-house ck rides you will get done also faster....If I would go back I would do my PPL 61, over time while going to school or working, then go to a 141 full time and knock all the rating out all the way to CFII.

One of my students that did his PPL part 61 over two years, while going to college and working part time, got his ME IR CPL and CFI in 6 months.....he spent around 50$ for everything
 
swisspilot said:
The 61 route it`s not necessary cheaper then going 141, if you plan to instruct having 50 more hours when you start working does not make any difference, if you work at a Busy school you will get them in couple weeks. Some big Academies have high rates but there is a lot of smaller 141 schools that charge the same as the FBO behind the Corner, sometimes even cheaper (especially when flying multi engine), I would look for a 141 program that has a good amount of multi in it, like getting the Instrument and Commercial all in multi. If the 141 school does in-house ck rides you will get done also faster....If I would go back I would do my PPL 61, over time while going to school or working, then go to a 141 full time and knock all the rating out all the way to CFII.

One of my students that did his PPL part 61 over two years, while going to college and working part time, got his ME IR CPL and CFI in 6 months.....he spent around 50$ for everything
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It is if he has his own plane part 61 vs renting a plane 141. ;)
 
amjon said:
It is if he has his own plane part 61 vs renting a plane 141. ;)
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Yes you may be right, but will his plane be suitable for a CSEL? For a CFI rating? He will need to rent a Multi, I`m pretty sure there is also a rise in insurance involved with using your own plane. Not to mention the rates of most freelance CFI, they charge between 40 and 50$/hours and you will have most likely adapt to his schedule.
I see an advantage for the PPL and the time building portion but he still will have to go to a flight school at some point....
 
swisspilot said:
Yes you may be right, but will his plane be suitable for a CSEL? For a CFI rating? He will need to rent a Multi, I`m pretty sure there is also a rise in insurance involved with using your own plane. Not to mention the rates of most freelance CFI, they charge between 40 and 50$/hours and you will have most likely adapt to his schedule.
I see an advantage for the PPL and the time building portion but he still will have to go to a flight school at some point....
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Yes depending on the plane he will have to use another at some point, but he could switch to 141 for commercial if he wanted.
 
What I think I will do is get my PPL and Instrument under part 61 in this plane then hopefully (with enough money saved up) head to ATP for some sort of customized package for the rest of the ratings. Obviously I have to get in touch with them or a similar operation to see what the costs would be for said customized package and whether that would be the best option. The plane in question is actually my father’s SR-20 which is what makes this such a pain. It’s great to have a nice and really cheap plane to train in but it’s not like a 172 where every instructor and their mother is comfortable teaching in it. Kind of limits my options in whom and where I can get my training done. I’ve got a good buddy who has 1k hours, mostly instructing, and I think I will pay for him to get some hours with an instructor in it to see how comfortable training in it he will be. If that works out then my instructor costs will be dirt cheap.
 
Brian29 said:
What I think I will do is get my PPL and Instrument under part 61 in this plane then hopefully (with enough money saved up) head to ATP for some sort of customized package for the rest of the ratings. Obviously I have to get in touch with them or a similar operation to see what the costs would be for said customized package and whether that would be the best option. The plane in question is actually my father’s SR-20 which is what makes this such a pain. It’s great to have a nice and really cheap plane to train in but it’s not like a 172 where every instructor and their mother is comfortable teaching in it. Kind of limits my options in whom and where I can get my training done. I’ve got a good buddy who has 1k hours, mostly instructing, and I think I will pay for him to get some hours with an instructor in it to see how comfortable training in it he will be. If that works out then my instructor costs will be dirt cheap.
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I think teaching in a SR20 it`s not really that hard, any instructor with some dual time an some hours of adaptation on the plane (5 hours will be required anyway, plus whatever the insurance wants) will do just fine...in my opinion it`s not the best plane for primary flight training, but if you can fly it for cheap why not?

Make sure your instructor will use a FITS way of teaching you...
http://www.faa.gov/training_testing/training/fits/media/fits_qa.pdf
 
swisspilot said:
I think teaching in a SR20 it`s not really that hard, any instructor with some dual time an some hours of adaptation on the plane (5 hours will be required anyway, plus whatever the insurance wants) will do just fine...in my opinion it`s not the best plane for primary flight training, but if you can fly it for cheap why not?

Make sure your instructor will use a FITS way of teaching you...
http://www.faa.gov/training_testing/training/fits/media/fits_qa.pdf
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Where does it say 5 hours is required?

Is this what you are thinking of?

61.195 (f)
Training received in a multiengine airplane, a helicopter, or a powered-lift. A flight instructor may not give training required for the issuance of a certificate or rating in a multiengine airplane, a helicopter, or a powered-lift unless that flight instructor has at least 5 flight hours of pilot-in-command time in the specific make and model of multiengine airplane, helicopter, or powered-lift, as appropriate.
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mshunter said:
Where does it say 5 hours is required?

Is this what you are thinking of?

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Yes, it was a problem for us when we were looking to buy a plane, we had a travel Air and a Twin Comanche on our list, but nobody that could train me (insurance wanted 15 hours dual), none of the owners were CFIs and there was no CFI in the area with 5 hours on type, this was the main reason we did not bought the Twin Comanche..
 
swisspilot said:
Yes, it was a problem for us when we were looking to buy a plane, we had a travel Air and a Twin Comanche on our list, but nobody that could train me (insurance wanted 15 hours dual), none of the owners were CFIs and there was no CFI in the area with 5 hours on type, this was the main reason we did not bought the Twin Comanche..
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But isn't a Twin Comanche a twin? SR20 is a single.
 
swisspilot said:
(insurance wanted 15 hours dual),... there was no CFI in the area with 5 hours on type, this was the main reason we did not bought the Twin Comanche..
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I just want to bring more attention to what MSHUNTER quoeted,
A flight instructor may not give training required for the issuance of a certificate or rating in a multiengine airplane, a helicopter, or a powered-lift unless that flight instructor has at least 5 flight hours
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In the future, you don't need an MEI with five hours PIC Make/Model if you are just trying satisfy insurance requirements.
 
Douglas said:
I just want to bring more attention to what MSHUNTER quoeted,


In the future, you don't need an MEI with five hours PIC Make/Model if you are just trying satisfy insurance requirements.
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I had to get an IPC and the FSDO told me that the CFI needs to have the 5 hours.
 
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