"1337", Job Search Etiquette, Resumes and You

[KLB]

Along these same lines, I happened to be in the office the other day when a young man (22-25) years old came in for a interview. It was pathetic. The guy stunk, had not combed his hair for a while and his pants were hanging low, and every other word was a cuss word. Not a good way to get a job.

It is if you're an aspiring rap artist!

Well even rappers are well groomed. Most of them anyways.


The secret to the really popular hip hop artist is that they are really good businesmen and women. You may not think of it that way, but there are some of them who aren't very talented, but are able to produce music that is being sold to the masses. At the very least they can sell themselves.

 

[t-cart]

Well even rappers are well groomed. Most of them anyways.


The secret to the really popular hip hop artist is that they are really good businesmen and women. You may not think of it that way, but there are some of them who aren't very talented, but are able to produce music that is being sold to the masses. At the very least they can sell themselves.

I agree 100%! This guy was no rap artist.

 

[pullup]

The secret to the really popular hip hop artist is that they are really good businesmen and women. You may not think of it that way, but there are some of them who aren't very talented, but are able to produce music that is being sold to the masses. At the very least they can sell themselves.

Kanye?

 

[Roger, Roger]

I preferred to see a one or two paragraph introduction in the body of the email...etc.

Thank you very much, Steve. That was very informative.

 

[OldTownPilot]

I just have to ask what does "1337" mean?

I guess I'm not cool enough to send crappy I wanna jawb email.

 

[N826AW]

The 'Thanks for the interview' email is what got me my current job. Come to find out after I was hired that it was a requirement for round two of interviews. They wanted to see I was able to write a professional email and communicate properly since much of our intra and inter-company communication is done by email.

 

[surreal1221]

Yes the job listing was for computer skills and datEbase.

Ah okay, had me confused.

 

[n57flyguy]

1. Send a Thank You card within a couple of days. "Thank you for seeing me/accepting my resume. I look forward to following up with you soon."
2. Telephone a couple of days later. Keep the call brief and don't expect any answers from them, just express your interest in their company and in the job. Ask when you can follow up with them again, and if they are vague just say "Thank you, if it's OK with you I'll call you back in a couple of weeks."
3. Call again, and do it when you said that you would in #2. If they said "call me back next week", call them next Thursday. You want to be eager but not obnoxious.
4. If they haven't yet said "Thanks, but no thanks", "you're not what we're looking for" or something similar, then just routinely stay in contact. Make yourself a note to contact them once a month. Always keep it brief, don't pester them with questions about what's happening, and stay positive. Remember, THEY DON"T OWE YOU ANYTHING. Not even an explanation of what is happening with the job that you applied for.

I've done all of these, and they work very, very well. I've been in contact with one company for over a year now because of steps 2, 3, and 4 (I used 2 as my thank you card, however, I just recently purchased some). They only reason I couldn't be hired the first time was I was too young. As luck would have it the economy trouble struck. By keeping in contact, I got an oppertunity to work as a "contract line guy" for a few days when they needed help with an aircraft rush. Timing helped with that a little bit to. The best news is I left a message two weeks ago, got a call back the folowing week and was told something may be coming up shortly, he was specific enough to tell me a rough schedule to. It(s) work(s)(ing)!

Now, one of my weak points is cover letters, not to thread hijack, but where should I start on writing one? I'm a modest personality so selling myself without trying to sound like all that is hard for me....

 

[CRJDriver]

Good info Doug!

I'm sure glad I took that Technical & Business Writing class back in college I agree with all the stuff that has already been posted. I'm starting to become quite the expert on resume and cover letter writing, probably because I've been doing it almost on a daily basis for the past 5 months.

Just to add. I think most companies these days accept resumes via e-mail. And I agree, do write something in the body of your email. I always attach a cover letter with my resume in .PDF format, as it looks clean and keeps the formatting. I also keep a copy of the email/resume I've send for my records.

 

[tonyw]

On the one hand, its scary that a great employee could be getting tossed aside. On the other hand...your resume is more important to you than any work project will be. Your resume is a reflection of how you work, and in reality it's probably even BETTER than the work you will produce. If you didn't bother to read your resume through..."there" or "their" could mean you wont even get called by some employers.

When I was screening resumes, I would have hundreds to go through. And I figured if people couldn't be bothered to explain to me why they were good for the job or to make sure everything was correct on their resume and their grammar was correct, then I couldn't be bothered to consider them for employment.

You would be amazed at the number of people who would do stupid things that got them tossed.

Was I being a prick? Perhaps. But I really didn't care. If you were trying to impress me and you couldn't even make sure your resume and cover letter were perfect, then what were you going to do when you weren't?

Let's get some jobs, people. They're out there, forget the naysayers.

Yes, there are. But right now, the competition for a good job is pretty intense. You ain't trying to hook up with some drunk skank anymore. Now you're going for a rocket scientist supermodel.

As for the rest of the advice, it all seems sound to me. The only thing I would add is that thank you notes, while nice, are not really required anymore. When I interviewed people, I knew whether I wanted to bring them back or not before the end of the interview. A thank you note from a person who I didn't want to bring back would find its way into the recycle bin and wouldn't do any good. And the people who I wanted to bring back would be getting calls from me, thank you note or not.

 

[nbv4]

The way I do these things is to do what I would expect others to do to me if I were an interviewer. The truth be told, if I were interviewing candidates, I wouldn't give a crap if they sent me a follow up email or not. At least I wouldn't if it were just a simple form-letter type response. It's such an empty gesture.

Lets say this: If you interviewed for a job and they told you right after the interview that you got the job and then scheduled your start date, would you still send a thank you letter to the interviewer? Of course not. Theres no point, you already have the job. Once you are hired do you ever send thank you letters to check airmen who evaluate you, or secretaries for doing things for you? Of course you don't. The thank you letter is no longer a thank you letter. It has simply become another meaningless steps in the job hiring song-and-dance.

The 'Thanks for the interview' email is what got me my current job. Come to find out after I was hired that it was a requirement for round two of interviews. They wanted to see I was able to write a professional email and communicate properly since much of our intra and inter-company communication is done by email.

I hate this kind of crap. If they want to see how well you communicate in emails, then why not just ask you in the interview to write an email for them? Why play such stupid games? What if you ran into the interviewer at the grocery store or something and gave him a sincere thank you for doing the interview? Do you still not make it to round two because he can't verify that he can send good emails? This kind of stuff is why I hate interviewing for jobs so much. A lot of people out there make this whole thing into such an unintuitive cat and mouse game.

 

[moxiepilot]

sad thing is that I dont even know what 1337 means, or most other txt speak Doug posts. I'm so old.

 

[Swen]

sad thing is that I dont even know what 1337 means, or most other txt speak Doug posts. I'm so old.

The ABS 1337 translator shall help you.

 

[mjg407]

Not that I'm a job search guru or the "Tony Robbins" of finding a job in this economy but I get a lot of feedback from quite a few different people that are looking for pilots from time to time.

Some common things I've been hearing from a major pilot application service and other people that are looking for good people to fill pilot jobs.

1. Consider the market. There are A LOT of people looking for jobs today and the dynamics that we were able to enjoy a few years ago when "Have license, will fly" was enough to score you an interview do not exist today. Look sharp, be upstanding and in any correspondence with a potential employer, triple check it.

2. Grammar counts. You're not SMS'ing your BFF, responding to a forum post, or "Twittering" (Gosh, I hate even hearing about Twitter because it's doofus and over publicized), you're basically representing yourself in words. Write in complete sentences, use proper grammar and keep in mind that your reader is going to form a "profile" of you by what you say. They don't have time to give you the benefit of the doubt, especially in this economy.

3. Spelling Counts -- even the most basic telephone will spell check your text messages, you'd better be damned sure your resume and cover letter (see below) has proper spelling, punctuation and grammar. There aren't any excuses for this in 2009. Forum postings, well, those are semi-excluded

4. Cover letters, people! Don't just email your resume in an attachment. If the employer wants you to send a CV or resume, attach it to a well-written email, highlighting what job you're interested in, a little about yourself and THEN attach your resume to the email. Do not simply attach a resume to a blank email and hit 'send'.

5. Remember, even though you're "OneOfTheGoodGuysB787PilotWithLoadsOfExperienceAndAGreatAttitude" on the forum, when you apply for a job, you're largely a "John Doe" and the way you present yourself in your cover letter and your resume is very important.

If I was going to walk a resume into the chief pilots office for you, and even though you're a great person, highly recommended, but you can't reflect that by taking the time out to take items 1 thru 4 seriously, you've just wrecked any confidence the chief pilot may have in the applicants I bring to him.

If I WAS the chief pilot, I'd be fit-to-be-tied that my friend didn't take the time and give due diligence to make himself look as professional and worthy of consideration.

Please, take this constructively. Remember to "pay it forward" and godspeed to us all in this economy.

I just saw this today Doug, and when I get a chance I'll add to this (I'm getting ready to fly a maintenance check right now). I can't mention how many "blind" resumes pop up in my inbox on a daily basis, with "hey I want to fly airtankers".

 

[mjg407]

Oh one last thing. If your email is F18SupersonicPilot@youremailaddress.com and the fastest thing you have flown is a Seminole...GET A NEW PROFESSIONAL ADDRESS. Good example is first.last@emailaddress.com. Really folks its funy to me, but I never flew an F18. To the guys here that did fly an F18...not so funny. Intelligent people see everything in big picture mode. Be intelligent!

That is something that cracks me up. I must get a least two resumes a week (unsolicited) and some of the email addresses are just......(ledzepRocks@gmail.com)....... and I'm like uhhhhh.

The other thing is that you may want to do like fsiflyer said and start a new email address for just applications... that way your future employer doesn't check out your myspace page of you doing keg stands with the hooters girls last July 4th.

 

[TallFlyer]

Couple of thoughts:

When I interviewed for my last job I was told that all the resumes and applications went into three piles:

1. Ones that didn't follow the instructions on the application.
2. Ones that did and that they didn't care to interview.
3. Ones that did and they wanted to interview.

In short, follow all the application instructions to the letter.

Have someone review your cover letter and resume. I'm fortunate that my sister is a very talented and well paid HR person so I have her do it for me, although I have to filter some of her suggestions as she doesn't have any aviation experience. In any event, another set of eyes will be able to pick up on spelling, grammar, and formatting errors or faux paus that you missed. I'm sure they're are several folks on this board that would probably do it for you.

Don't be afraid to tailor your resume to the job your seeking (within reason).

Keep your resume to one page!

Network! Assuming I'm here next summer I'm going to be calling a few friends (some of whom just barely meet the qualifications) and getting their resumes and submitting them to my boss. I'm going to do that because a. I know they can do the job well, and b. I would enjoy working with them. You can rest assured that those resumes will make it to the top of the pile. That also implies that I work hard around here to maintain my own credibility so my recommendations are actually worth something.

How I got my current job:

- Saw the ad on climbto350
- Sent a short 'Letter of interest' that stated my interest in applying, and a bulleted list of my qualifications that reflected the requirements stated in the job ad.
- Got an email back requesting my resume
- Had a phone interview and was offered a position

This all happened in the March/April timeframe so yes, there are jobs in this market!

 

[KLB]

Kanye?

Kanye and a host of others. Most of them put out this image to the public, but are totally different in person. They're really just actors honestly.

Don't get me wrong though. Some of them are the real deal.

 

[TXaviator]

quit giving out tips. I can send out very well composed and presented resume's and cover letters all day and not get a reply anyway.

dont need any additional competition.

kthx.

 

[mjg407]

I have some questions for those of you that do receive e-mailed resumes, and those who have a lot more job-hunting experience than I.

Can you provide an example of what you like to see in the body of those emails? Would writing a full-on cover letter in the email body be adequately impressive, or do you typically expect and prefer something a little bit less formal?

Also, if I have people who I know will give me outstanding recommendations, is it typically appropriate to include their information in the body of the email?

Final question: If I have emailed or dropped off a resume in person, how pushy should I be when following up with the employer?

Just like you have been doing, sorry that I haven't been able to get anywhere with it.

 

[nocturnalaviator]

You're not SMS'ing your BFF, responding to a forum post, or "Twittering" (Gosh, I hate even hearing about Twitter because it's doofus and over publicized), you're basically representing yourself in words.

LOL I believe the correct term is Tweeting or as used in a sentence, "Billy has posted a tweet." I do agree it is garbage, and should be abolished by the media all together. But, why are we not surprised?:dunno: Thank You! Great post!