$100 user fee

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Oh, I fully intend to get some GA flying in. I've actually been talking to a couple of flying clubs and flight schools locally about getting checked out. But none of the user fees proposed would apply to someone flying a Cessna on the weekends. Unless you're flying something bigger than a King Air, none of it would apply to you. Which is exactly why AOPA is such a bunch of scammers. They convince every guy who owns a Piper to give them money for fear of user fees that would never apply to anyone except Fuller's rich buddies.

 

[mshunter]

And when was the last time you flew a general aviation airplane?

So what, you're just going to lay a bigbtird on where this all started? Like Doug said, they are the last people standing up for GA that have any kind of power at the capital.

 

[MikeD]

Thank you. Nice to see that some people can have a disagreement without it getting ugly.

You are being held hostage, with a gun to your head by an unknown person, and are told to make a choice......pick one and follow through with it, or die:

1. Join AOPA, attend their yearly whatever they have, and fly around with tons of GA planes swirling around your airliner.

2. Eat at Chik Fil A.

Which do you choose?

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Remember? I already eat at Chick Fil A. I just make matching donations to Lambda Legal in Dan Cathy's name.

 

[milleR]

Remember? I already eat at Chick Fil A. I just make matching donations to Lambda Legal in Dan Cathy's name.

Awesome.

 

[Houston]

Oh, I fully intend to get some GA flying in. I've actually been talking to a couple of flying clubs and flight schools locally about getting checked out. But none of the user fees proposed would apply to someone flying a Cessna on the weekends. Unless you're flying something bigger than a King Air, none of it would apply to you. Which is exactly why AOPA is such a bunch of scammers. They convince every guy who owns a Piper to give them money for fear of user fees that would never apply to anyone except Fuller's rich buddies.

Have you ever heard the expression about the camels nose under the tent? Do you understand what it means?

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

millerR, the best part is that I'm sure my donations will add up to a few hundred bucks by the end of the year, so they'll almost certainly send a thank you card. I wish I could be there to see the look on the face of Cathy's secretary when she opens up a letter thanking Dan for his several hundred dollars in contributions to the nation's leading gay rights legal fund.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Have you ever heard the expression about the camels nose under the tent? Do you understand what it means?

Yes, it's a weak argument that is used to kill good ideas.

 

[Houston]

Yes, it's a weak argument that is used to kill good ideas.

Obviously you don't understand that either.

 

[milleR]

millerR, the best part is that I'm sure my donations will add up to a few hundred bucks by the end of the year, so they'll almost certainly send a thank you card. I wish I could be there to see the look on the face of Cathy's secretary when she opens up a letter thanking Dan for his several hundred dollars in contributions to the nation's leading gay rights legal fund.

Oh man, thanks for that, I'm laughing my ass off right now!

 

[KSCessnaDriver]

Oh, I fully intend to get some GA flying in. I've actually been talking to a couple of flying clubs and flight schools locally about getting checked out. But none of the user fees proposed would apply to someone flying a Cessna on the weekends. Unless you're flying something bigger than a King Air, none of it would apply to you. Which is exactly why AOPA is such a bunch of scammers. They convince every guy who owns a Piper to give them money for fear of user fees that would never apply to anyone except Fuller's rich buddies.

Oh the irony in this statement. Goes something like this. Oh hey guys, we are going to farm out the flying for 50 seat jets. All of the sudden, that farm system is flying 90 seat jets.

 

[BEEF SUPREME]

Oh, I fully intend to get some GA flying in. I've actually been talking to a couple of flying clubs and flight schools locally about getting checked out. But none of the user fees proposed would apply to someone flying a Cessna on the weekends. Unless you're flying something bigger than a King Air, none of it would apply to you. Which is exactly why AOPA is such a bunch of scammers. They convince every guy who owns a Piper to give them money for fear of user fees that would never apply to anyone except Fuller's rich buddies.

I applied to fly AOPAs Cj3...

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Yes, KS, because legislation is just like negotiating in bankruptcy.

 

[GX]

There were 2 pages on user fees, from 2008. Hardly "hashing it out over years", if I do say so myself. I just want to make sure I got all of these quotes correct. The quotes are in the entirety. As a GA guy, and a business guy with a strong interest in having a corporate aviation company at some point, I was definitely curious to see some of the old timers reaction to your position. What's most interesting to me is that this is coming from a guy who paid for his flight training through GA, paid for a right seat with Gulfstream , and sits (sat) on the board of an airline union. Interesting how everything ties together. Correct me, please, if I got any of this wrong.

Search results

On September 24,2008:

I think it would provide for an increase in job security. An industry that pays less in taxes has more latitude to operate their business. Taxes are strangling the airlines. The burden needs to be spread around."

The issue is how much tax burden is shared by the corporate operators. The amount of federal tax on a gallon of gas at TEB is the same amount of tax on a gallon of gas at ATL. But the 777 buys a lot more gallons than the Citation does. I consider that to be a problem since the Citation takes up the same resources as the 777 to go from point A to point B. "

Yes, I favor user fees, but mostly just for corporate aviation. There is certainly something to be said for limiting the incoming supply of new air line pilots by raising the cost of training, but I think that could probably be better accomplished by raising the minimum requirements to hold a Part 121 job rather than taxing true GA.

On Sept. 5, 2008:

Correct, for the most part. I support user fees and increased taxes for business aviation. I'm happy with leaving the little guys in their Cessnas alone.

April 11, 2008:
It's all spelled out here

Sounds like good news to me. A lower supply of pilots increases our leverage to improve our profession.

in response to:

She asked the student pilots attending the AOPA Pilot Town Meeting to stand, and said, “These are the most valuable people here tonight. They represent the future of general aviation, and there should be hundreds of them sitting in the audience.” There were six out of a crowd of 300.

April 12, 2008:

Reduce the tax burden on the airlines and shift some of it to the corporate and charter operators, for starters. Plus, it will reduce the number of people getting into aviation because the fees will raise the entry costs. Lower supply increases bargaining leverage.

I'll stop there, but it's good to know that I'm dealing with a guy who will gladly cut my throat to get a step up.

 

[GX]

Oh, I fully intend to get some GA flying in. I've actually been talking to a couple of flying clubs and flight schools locally about getting checked out. But none of the user fees proposed would apply to someone flying a Cessna on the weekends. Unless you're flying something bigger than a King Air, none of it would apply to you. Which is exactly why AOPA is such a bunch of scammers. They convince every guy who owns a Piper to give them money for fear of user fees that would never apply to anyone except Fuller's rich buddies.

But you said this on April 12, 2008:

I'm not too concerned about guys that just fly for a hobby. Sorry, but I'm not up for destroying my leverage just so some guy can go fly the pattern in his 152 for a couple of weekends every month. If they can still afford it with user fees, then fine, but I'm not going to worry about them when structuring public policy. Airlines drive the economy, Cessna hobbyists don't.

As for the fractionals, charter companies, check haulers, etc..., they will simply have to pass their increased costs on to the consumer. All of them are in a much better position to do so than the airlines.

Has this position changed?

 

[trafficinsight]

The real answer is, not yet.

The DOT has been trying to enact user fees for quite some time now. At the moment they claim they will only target buisness jets and maybe turboprops. AOPA, EAA, and NBAA have been fighting this for quite some time now.

AOPA sees this as the first step toward a European style user fee system that charges C-150s 25$ per touch and go. I'm not sure that will ever happen, but I tend to think that the threat is real.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. This is nothing but a divide and conquer tactic "Those rich fat cats in their jets can AFFORD to pay it!" Once one segment has it it'll spread to all others... except the airlines of course, they have lobbyists. I suppose the fees will be lower for Riddle grads as well.

I'll pay user fees when airlines pay fuel taxes and we can all go down together, but at least next-gen will be plated with diamonds.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

GS, if that's all you found, then you aren't looking very hard. We've debated this at least twice in just the past couple of years. Maybe even the past year. I can remember a relatively recent thread, in fact. As far as your last comment, I don't consider it "cutting your throat" to have you pay your fair share.

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

But you said this on April 12, 2008:



Has this position changed?

No, it has not. My personal preference would be to charge user fees on all GA. And I would happily pay it when I rented a GA airplane. But the fact is, there has never been a proposal that would actually charge user fees on true GA airplanes. AOPA is engaged in fear mongering to drive up membership and dues revenue.

 

[SteveC]

Try a search with "AOPA" and his name...maybe?

 

[SlumTodd_Millionaire]

Try a search with "AOPA" and his name...maybe?

That might work. I generally have a visceral reaction whenever they come up.