10 Reasons not to ATTEND Panam Academy

[Lima_Charlie]

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I would bet that if you ran your car's AC for a solid 18hrs a day, that it would eventually break. And you would then procede to get it fixed at your earliest convenience, right?? Would your not go to work until your AC got fixed? No, you would still go to work, and deal w/ the broken part as soon as you could.


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Well, if it's my personal car and I'm the only one that has to use it, then you're absolutely right - I'd go without AC. Actually, my AC has been broken for about 9 months now...miserable, I tell you!!!

However, if I were looking for a rental car in Phoenix, and one place says "Come Use our Cars - They Have Air Conditioning!!!!!", I would expect Air Conditioning. If it only worked for 4 of the 5 days I was renting it, I want some money back. How do they know that air conditioning wasn't important to me?

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It certainly wouldn't push me over into the "disgruntled Pan Am'er" category.

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And therein lies an excellent point! Different people have different reasons to be disgruntled! Me? I'd be pissed about the AC. Some people might be pissed about the wait to get students.

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You make a very good point. I would agree that if I got a rental car that said it had AC and it turned out that it didn't work, I would just request another car. I guess that when it comes to flying, I just don't put that much "need" on the AC, so I can deal w/o having it. A little sweat isn't going to kill anyone. I chose to train in Phoenix, of course it is going to be HOT!!

 

[Lima_Charlie]

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Lima Charlie, why do you fight tooth and nail to defend this place?

The AC deal is pretty deceitful in my opinion

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I defend it against unwaranted attacks by uninformed, out of touch people, that have no current connection to Pan Am. You would think that with all of the annonymity provided online, that JC would be flooded w/ people that have "issues" w/ Pan Am. Instead all that we ever see is a few people that had problems 2 years ago. I have never said that Pan Am is perfect,because it is not. Like any business, Pan Am must look after their bottom line. I can appreciate that, just as long as they don't lose sight of their customers, which I know they try hard not to do.

I defend Pan Am because I have been given no reason not to defend it. It is a good school that has had some challenges in the past, which have been corrected. I don't feel that anything was misrepresented when I signed up. Very rarely has a flight been cancelled due to maintenance, or WX.

What can I say, so far I am a satisfied customer.

Let me ask you this... Why do you feel the need to trash Pan Am's reputation when you have ZERO connection to, or direct experience, w/ the school?

 

[mtsu_av8er]

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I would agree that if I got a rental car that said it had AC and it turned out that it didn't work, I would just request another car.


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Do they allow you to cancel or delay a flight if the AC is out??

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I guess that when it comes to flying, I just don't put that much "need" on the AC, so I can deal w/o having it. A little sweat isn't going to kill anyone. I chose to train in Phoenix, of course it is going to be HOT!!

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Lima, I agree 100% that there isn't alot of "need" for AC in the airplane - but there isn't much "need" for GPS, either. Definately makes life better. And if they advertise that the aircraft have AC, they're being crooked by not fixing the AC when it goes out!!

 

[Lima_Charlie]

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I would agree that if I got a rental car that said it had AC and it turned out that it didn't work, I would just request another car.


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Do they allow you to cancel or delay a flight if the AC is out??

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I guess that when it comes to flying, I just don't put that much "need" on the AC, so I can deal w/o having it. A little sweat isn't going to kill anyone. I chose to train in Phoenix, of course it is going to be HOT!!

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Lima, I agree 100% that there isn't alot of "need" for AC in the airplane - but there isn't much "need" for GPS, either. Definately makes life better. And if they advertise that the aircraft have AC, they're being crooked by not fixing the AC when it goes out!!

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That is a good question, that I don't know the answer to. I have never really made enough of an issue w/ not having AC to cancel my flight. I would much rather deal w/ the heat than cancel a flight. That would just slow my training down.

It is not that the school doens't fix the AC when it breaks, they just try to fix it when it isn't going to sacrifice flight time for the students. They are not going to pull and airplane off the line for a day, just because the a/c doesn't work. They are going to wait until the airplane isn't scheduled to fly. It is the same for any other MEL'd typed equipment that might break. If the plane is still airworthly, it is going to fly.

Now if the GPS unit broke, that is another story, as both comm units are attached. So that would be an issue that would need to get fixed right away.

Does that make sense???

 

[Tired]

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Lima Charlie, why do you fight tooth and nail to defend this place?

The AC deal is pretty deceitful in my opinion

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I never experienced 20% of my flights with the AC broke, and that's with almost 1000+ in those Archers. However, they were broken from time to time and you either swap onto another aircraft, or deal with it. Once you get into the air it's not that hot.

Brand new airplanes are not like brand new cars. A new car you pretty much put gas in and change the oil and nothing will go wrong for thousands of miles. New airplanes are just like old airplanes, stuff breaks all the time, and you MEL it and go on with life. In some ways they are even worse, there is more crap to break in a new airplane. Just wait until you sit in an EMB-120 or Learjet cockpit in the middle of the summer because the air is MELed, it's going to be ALOT hotter then what you'll experience in an Archer. When I was there MX did there best to keep all the ACs running during the summer, but when Piper builds them based on 1960s technology, well, what do you expect?

 

[Tired]

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Lima, I agree 100% that there isn't alot of "need" for AC in the airplane - but there isn't much "need" for GPS, either. Definately makes life better. And if they advertise that the aircraft have AC, they're being crooked by not fixing the AC when it goes out!!

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Oh please. First, it's already been said that they DO fix the ACs. However, they are not going to cancel student's flights because there is no AC. Once you takeoff it's not really that hot.

Lot's of other fancy stuff breaks on airplanes. If you were to book a trans-atlantic flight on a 777, and the IFE was out, would you call the airline crooked? Or should they cancel the flight and fix the IFE, you can just make your trip to Europe tommorw? Or let's say the APU goes out so there is no AC until they start the engines and it's 100 degrees outside? Is that crooked also?

I don't think so, and both of these things have happened to me. Airplanes do not equal rental cars.

 

[mtsu_av8er]

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Brand new airplanes are not like brand new cars.

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Believe me - I know a little something about broken aircraft...if you'd like to learn some of it sometime, let me know!!

 

[mtsu_av8er]

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Lot's of other fancy stuff breaks on airplanes. If you were to book a trans-atlantic flight on a 777, and the IFE was out, would you call the airline crooked?


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Would I call that airline crooked? Yes. Hell yes. They need to fix it. And I can talk...I've ridden on alot of airlines, all around the world. I hold business to a pretty high standard. When I choose my product, I want what's advertised. Otherwise, I don't want to pay the full amount.

I don't consider myself "lucky" to be riding that airplane, just like I don't consider myself "lucky" to be able to fly with a flight school that has some fancy aircraft....

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Airplanes do not equal rental cars.

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A bad business practice is a bad business practice!!

Like I said, I stay out of the argument for the most part. I don't go there, and I never did. I have, however, turned alot of people away from these places. When I hear that many complaints, it makes me wary. When the proponents defend something so strongly and can't really do anything but get angry, it makes me wonder....

 

[Lima_Charlie]

So if you were on a trip, and had a timeline that had to be kept, and something that wasn't the least bit critical to the completion of the flight was broken, you would be okay w/ the airline canceling your flight until the problem was fixed???

I find that very hard to believe...

I don't follow you last thought. Who is getting angry and whom??? And what exactly are you wondering about?? Please clarify...

 

[aviator]

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This is after I'd put 20 hours into lazy 8's at PanAm.

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That's crazy. 20 minutes of in flight instruction should be able to produce a lazy 8 to PTS...............

 

[Lima_Charlie]

I agree... They may may not have been very pretty at first, but because I knew the concept, I was able to do them quite well w/ a little bit of practice. Some people might just have a problem "picturing" what the manuever is supposed to look like. I can't imagine 20hrs of just Lazy 8's!!!

 

[mtsu_av8er]

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So if you were on a trip, and had a timeline that had to be kept, and something that wasn't the least bit critical to the completion of the flight was broken, you would be okay w/ the airline canceling your flight until the problem was fixed???

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No, I wouldn't be ok with them cancelling the flight. I'd expect them to have the problem fixed before I got on board. I know that everything can't work all the time. If it's becomming a problem, however, then that airline needs to figure out what's wrong with that process and get it fixed.

Like I said before, I try to stay out of the Pan Am thing, because my only connection is knowing people that have gone there. I've known some that liked it, and some that haven't. If it's your thing, hey - go with it!!

I'm only trying to understand!!!!

 

[Lima_Charlie]

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So if you were on a trip, and had a timeline that had to be kept, and something that wasn't the least bit critical to the completion of the flight was broken, you would be okay w/ the airline canceling your flight until the problem was fixed???

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No, I wouldn't be ok with them cancelling the flight. I'd expect them to have the problem fixed before I got on board. I know that everything can't work all the time. If it's becomming a problem, however, then that airline needs to figure out what's wrong with that process and get it fixed.

Like I said before, I try to stay out of the Pan Am thing, because my only connection is knowing people that have gone there. I've known some that liked it, and some that haven't. If it's your thing, hey - go with it!!

I'm only trying to understand!!!!

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I can appreciate that.. I am more than happy to help in any way I can!

 

[Lima_Charlie]

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So if you were on a trip, and had a timeline that had to be kept, and something that wasn't the least bit critical to the completion of the flight was broken, you would be okay w/ the airline canceling your flight until the problem was fixed???

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No, I wouldn't be ok with them cancelling the flight. I'd expect them to have the problem fixed before I got on board. I know that everything can't work all the time. If it's becomming a problem, however, then that airline needs to figure out what's wrong with that process and get it fixed.

Like I said before, I try to stay out of the Pan Am thing, because my only connection is knowing people that have gone there. I've known some that liked it, and some that haven't. If it's your thing, hey - go with it!!

I'm only trying to understand!!!!

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I can appreciate that.. I am more than happy to help in any way I can!

 

[Lima_Charlie]

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So if you were on a trip, and had a timeline that had to be kept, and something that wasn't the least bit critical to the completion of the flight was broken, you would be okay w/ the airline canceling your flight until the problem was fixed???

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No, I wouldn't be ok with them cancelling the flight. I'd expect them to have the problem fixed before I got on board. I know that everything can't work all the time. If it's becomming a problem, however, then that airline needs to figure out what's wrong with that process and get it fixed.

Like I said before, I try to stay out of the Pan Am thing, because my only connection is knowing people that have gone there. I've known some that liked it, and some that haven't. If it's your thing, hey - go with it!!

I'm only trying to understand!!!!

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I can appreciate that.. I am more than happy to help in any way I can!

 

[MikeD]

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I don't follow you last thought. Who is getting angry and whom??? And what exactly are you wondering about?? Please clarify...

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LOL. This has to be the angriest section of the entire JC forums! By both sides. Sheesh.

LC, quit posting things three times!

(just busting your chops. the server is running slow today)

 

[derg]

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That's crazy. 20 minutes of in flight instruction should be able to produce a lazy 8 to PTS...............

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Ahh, au countraire mon frere!

If I showed you how much instruction I got trying to produce a single lazy-8 to PTS standards, you'd probably spill your coffee!

Or drop your danish, if you're not a coffee drinker.

 

[Lima_Charlie]

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I don't follow you last thought. Who is getting angry and whom??? And what exactly are you wondering about?? Please clarify...

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LOL. This has to be the angriest section of the entire JC forums! By both sides. Sheesh.

LC, quit posting things three times!

(just busting your chops. the server is running slow today)

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Doh!!! Sorry about that!!! By the way, I am not the least bit "angry", seriously!! Just trying to understand...

(And now press the "submit" button only once!

 

[derg]

You guys are hilarious though.

The AC's out and they want to down the aircraft?

Not to sound like a grovely old fart, but I've never flown a single-engine aircraft with AC ever. Basically, it's just more incentive not to dally around before getting an engine started to get some airflow into the cabin.

I think if I were renting from an FBO and they had a notorious problem with keeping a Piper's AC unit working, but the rest of the aircraft was mechanically sound and in good working order, I could certainly care less.

Yup, even in PHX!

 

[gomntwins]

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That's crazy. 20 minutes of in flight instruction should be able to produce a lazy 8 to PTS...............

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Ahh, au countraire mon frere!

If I showed you how much instruction I got trying to produce a single lazy-8 to PTS standards, you'd probably spill your coffee!

Or drop your danish, if you're not a coffee drinker.

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It makes me feel better that somebody else struggled with Lazy 8's, thanks Doug!

The thing that upset me, when I actually took the commercial checkride, the examiner I had didn't make me do them.

I'll tell you what really helped me... and maybe it'll help sombody else someday too. Have your instructor do all the aileron inputs and the callouts (45 degreee , 90, 135, etc.) while you, as the student, do the rudders. My problem was keeping the aircraft coordinated throughout the maneuver... and this seemed to help me.