Lawman
Well-Known Member
I think it's something like 120 Hawks now and the guard gets to keep 3 reduced battalions of 18 Apaches.
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10,000 PLUS FLIGHT HOURS ON THE APACHE
- Thread starter A Life Aloft
- Start date
I think it's something like 120 Hawks now and the guard gets to keep 3 reduced battalions of 18 Apaches.
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It will be worse if certain units keep theirs over others. Did you deploy with this guy?
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Low_Level_Hell
Well-Known Member
Congrats to him and his great career. I've met CW5 Jones and CW4 Jones in passing and 1-211 was a great organization to work with.
As far as the NG getting one Blackhawk for every Apache they give up, that's more or less the current plan.
There are a lot of complaints about the Guard losing their Apaches, but unless they can deploy more often, the case for all the Apaches going to Active Duty makes sense. When and if the demand for Apaches overseas goes back down maybe then move some back to the Guard.
As far as the NG getting one Blackhawk for every Apache they give up, that's more or less the current plan.
There are a lot of complaints about the Guard losing their Apaches, but unless they can deploy more often, the case for all the Apaches going to Active Duty makes sense. When and if the demand for Apaches overseas goes back down maybe then move some back to the Guard.
Lawman
Well-Known Member
I don't know him personally. They were in another Regional Command when I was in Afghanistan. I do know a few Utah guard guys though having gone through initial aircraft qualification with them.
Watching a couple of them Facebook bitch about this whole process is just funny though. All the guard is more efficient and other arguments to keep a specific aircraft type. At the same time that the Active side is reducing everything to make 10 fully equipped heavy CABs instead of 12-13 that are missing whole chunks of their MTOE.
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Low_Level_Hell
Well-Known Member
The plan for the Guard to keep 3 battalions is a recommendation to congress, I don't think it has been finalized yet.
deadstick
Well-Known Member
Are they building new E models for us or are those going to foreign military sales?
Were any of the NG units originally light bn's?
From what I remember, they were in PA, NC, SC, FL, TX, MO, UT, ID, AZ, and TN (or was that a 58D det with MS), plus the 2 USAR BN's in KY and TX. At 24/BN, that's still a loss of a lot of airframes not to mention pilot slots in the RC.
Were any of the NG units originally light bn's?
From what I remember, they were in PA, NC, SC, FL, TX, MO, UT, ID, AZ, and TN (or was that a 58D det with MS), plus the 2 USAR BN's in KY and TX. At 24/BN, that's still a loss of a lot of airframes not to mention pilot slots in the RC.
Low_Level_Hell
Well-Known Member
A lot of countries are buying the E model. The US has a few Battalions in the field and adding more.
deadstick
Well-Known Member
Right, but aren't ours recycled D models (some of which are recycled A models)? That's why I'm wondering if we're actually getting new airframes.
Low_Level_Hell
Well-Known Member
There are new build Echos in the US. I think the Army is rebuilding Echos from Deltas as well but I'm not a 100 percent positive on that though. I'm still in the Delta model.
Lawman
Well-Known Member
Right now the D models are being rebuilt for us and most of the new builds are going to the countries buying 10-18 aircraft buys since that's about all Boeing can put out at Mesa.
Funny thing is we did the same thing with a lot of the D models being remanufactured A models. Now some of those are being remanufactured as Es so the actual aircraft was first built in the 80s but is being sold as a new airframe.
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Soku39
Well-Known Member
By this logic Air Guard units should not field F-16s, EC-130Js, RC-26, B-2 etc.
Lawman
Well-Known Member
I think the better analogy here is if you don't have enough Raptors to outfit the Active duty side why would you stand up a squadron in the guard.
Active Army is gonna need another 100-200 Apaches to fight. That's regardless of whether or not there are comparable guard units of if those unit transfer to another airframe or shutter entirely. The big thing is if the Guard doesn't give up birds to go to Mesa and be rebuilt as E models then we will have active brigades have to do it. That means taking them out of the fight and putting the requirement on the remaining active duty battalions to fill the slot for whatever battalion has all their stuff being turned into E models. It also doesn't account for what you do with that battalion worth of aviators who can't remain current or keep training. Essentially we can do the conversion and not touch the guard D models, but it will take twice as long and be very painful on 2nd and 3rd order effects.
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Lawman
Well-Known Member
Ha!
Takes them about twice as long to go from notification and deployment is coming to out the door and deployed. Their readiness just isn't set up for that and telling the guard they are gonna be Active-lite for the now 6 years it's gonna take the active side to finish ARI is a non starter.
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Low_Level_Hell
Well-Known Member
Selfishly I welcome the Apaches going to active duty. Means more time at home. If I weren't at my terminal rank I'd be happy about the promotion rates as well.
However you could almost make the case the Guard should take a larger share of the deployments. National Guard Aviation is not one weekend a month and two weeks a year by any means. The aviators still have to maintain the same flight hours as active duty and a very large part of their force works full time for the unit as either full time guard or a contractor.
However you could almost make the case the Guard should take a larger share of the deployments. National Guard Aviation is not one weekend a month and two weeks a year by any means. The aviators still have to maintain the same flight hours as active duty and a very large part of their force works full time for the unit as either full time guard or a contractor.
Nark
Macho Superpilot
For those reading on the side line and are wondering what a part -timer does:
I just finished scheduling March for my Guard unit, and I'll be flying 10 days of a potential 20 flight days. That is also on top of my 121 flying ~15 or so days.
I have to make up at least 3 cancelled flights from Jan and Feb to balance minimums and currency.
I just finished scheduling March for my Guard unit, and I'll be flying 10 days of a potential 20 flight days. That is also on top of my 121 flying ~15 or so days.
I have to make up at least 3 cancelled flights from Jan and Feb to balance minimums and currency.
dustoff17
Still trying to reach the Top Shelf
+1!!
This is just a self-serving person at work........
While this is a true statement, it is full of "fluff".
The time from notification to deploy is controlled by the DoD and current law. I'll venture to guess that most Guard units are "up to the task" as soon as notified. However, the AC-regulated mobilization classes and "other training" turns what should be a smooth process into a nightmare. During each of our four deployments, my unit was ready and qualified LONG before the AC gave us the "thumbs up" to depart.
I seriously believe that this is one way the AC can squawk about the Guard with regards to its' readiness and capabilities. It is a convenient way to document the inability of the Guard/Reserve to spool up. If the Guard (or Reserve) were allowed to deploy with the same efficiency and speed as the AC, it would not look good to anyone in the system. Just sayin'.......
You're right about the "active-lite" statement though. As the saying goes: "One weekend a month my ass!"
fiveninerzero
Well-Known Member
The exception is that these guard Vipers actually have a homeland air defense mission.