Take your pick Colgan!
- Thread starter mjb00123
- Start date
H46Bubba
Well-Known Member
Crewroom only rates a peek at his back!EGADS! Hope he doesn't decide to "entertain" the crewroom at EWR when he gets there!anic:
:crazy:
Airdale
Well-Known Member
Listen to Seggy!If you don't; he'll personally show up at your door and moon you! It's not pretty!
I still have nightmares of Seggy's backhair.
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
So, interesting bit of bad news on this side..
Seems the arbitrator on the scope issue changed his mind and now says that Pinnacle Holdings DIDN'T do anything wrong. Currently, ALPA is saying "WTFO?" and has requested that he clarify what, why and how he suddenly decided to reverse his previous decision. This is from a blastmail from the Pinnacle MEC.
Essentially, if the scope clauses doesn't get upheld, there's really nothing to stop Pinnacle Holdings from suddenly granting Colgan ALL new flying and waiting while Pinnacle shrinks into nothingness. Heck, there's really nothing to stop them from moving all of our flying over to Colgan anyway. I think the NWA/Delta contracts are with Pinnacle HOLDINGS, which means Colgan could fly them as well.
Seems the arbitrator on the scope issue changed his mind and now says that Pinnacle Holdings DIDN'T do anything wrong. Currently, ALPA is saying "WTFO?" and has requested that he clarify what, why and how he suddenly decided to reverse his previous decision. This is from a blastmail from the Pinnacle MEC.
Essentially, if the scope clauses doesn't get upheld, there's really nothing to stop Pinnacle Holdings from suddenly granting Colgan ALL new flying and waiting while Pinnacle shrinks into nothingness. Heck, there's really nothing to stop them from moving all of our flying over to Colgan anyway. I think the NWA/Delta contracts are with Pinnacle HOLDINGS, which means Colgan could fly them as well.
L-16B
Well-Known Member
I want nothing but good things for Pinnacle, I have a bunch of friends over there. I would never ever ever fly anything but a turboprop for Colgan Air. I fully plan on helping out with the Alpa movement after talking to Seggy today. When you talk about granting Colgan new flying, are you talking about on rj's or just flying with nwa in general?
OldTownPilot
Well-Known Member
From the outside looking in, Couldn't it turn into a major conflict of interest having 2 unions representing pilots for the same company?
Lots of union fighting back and forth rather than union cooperation. Especially if this scope grievance is overturned.
I.e. TSA (ALPA) vs. GoJet (teamsters, albeit not local 747)
Lots of union fighting back and forth rather than union cooperation. Especially if this scope grievance is overturned.
I.e. TSA (ALPA) vs. GoJet (teamsters, albeit not local 747)
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
Legally, they could technically grant ANY flying, including what we're already doing at Pinnacle. I'm not 100% sure, but I believe the services agreement is with Pinnacle HOLDINGS, not Pinnacle AIRLINES. As for just flying turboprops.....the Q400 might as well be a jet. That thing carries more passengers, thus generating more revenue than the CRJ-200 I fly. Translation: you guys should be getting paid more than you are to fly that thing.
Back to something I missed earlier....
jtrain said:
WHAAAA! I'm glad I know you as well as I do, b/c I know you probably smacked them upside the head for that one. Technically, Comair and Delta are a conflict of interest. So are Mesaba and Pinnacle. That makes no sense. You negotiate the contract for your own pilots, not to undercut the other guy.
It'll only be substandard if you vote "yes" on a substandard contract. It'll also only be substandard if your OWN pilots on your OWN negotiating committee let it. ALPA National doesn't negotiate contracts, that's done at the local level. There's no reason to think that just b/c you've got a smaller pilot group, new kids, whatever that your contract is gonna be worse than XYZ airlines.
Looks like we've got a lot of educating to do, and the Teamster guys have a jumpstart on the mis-information drive.....
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
ANG135drvr
Well-Known Member
I think most all of the Q guys at Colgan are missinformed or somehow convinced that the Teamsters are the way to go. Seggy, you need to hurry up and get your @ss into EWR so you can talk some people straight and distribute that Union knowledge. Personally I just don't get having a Trucking Union representing Pilots when there is already a Pilot Specific group out there? I'll be happy to have anything over what we have now, but it be a lot nicer if we went for the right one on the first try.
TUCKnTRUCK
That guy
IF they do end up merging the list... it would be illegal to have 2 seperate contracts for one labor group, so technincaly a second year FO at colgan would take a pay cut.. but whatever that just means you've be adding 220 ish pilots to the list that would not accept the current contract ina a vote.
The Q guys are afraid that in a merger, Pinnacle pilots would displace them, and they probably don't really trust alpa right now... so u know what distrust and fear breeds... teamsters.
Honestly, I wish the 2 sides would stay represenative to their own sides. I would also like to see the 9E pilots get a new contract, as well as 9L guys in a mannar that each side was rewared for the profits of the Q... The Q flying wouldn't have happened if either party wasn't involved
kellwolf
Piece of Trash
That would be true until the new contract gets inked. Then the second year FOs would probably see a bigger pay jump. Although, now we're seeing that a list merger might not happen....
AFAIK, what we're looking for in a merger is some sort of seniority list integration with fences up. Which means it's a VERY good probability no one would get displaced. At least not for several years.
The problem with having them separate is that it gives management a nice little tool to play both sides off of each other. That's my major fear, mainly because I trust this management team about as far as I can toss a 747 with my pinky finger and b/c I know they wouldn't lose an ounce of sleep over it.
ANG135drvr I see your point. But what do you say about what Teamsters did for Netjets and Horizon. I don't know about you but those are pretty good contracts.
Also for Seggy! Since you seem to be the go to guy for ALPA and get your *** to EWR and tell me and many others what the real deal is. Because right now Teamsters have alot of the Captains minds made up.
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
Pilots, wanting to take part in a truckers union. We're really raising the standards now aren't we?
Oy yi yi. . .
Oy yi yi. . .
Polar742
All the responsibility none of the authority
While I'm not a huge fan of the IBT, as I was a member for about 9 yrs, they have had some contractual accomplishments.
1) The FIRST parent binder scope ever, which occured at RAH.
2) ABX contract - which unfortunately seems to be tanked by DHL's recent "decision"
3) Horzion's contract. Rates about 10% higher than CMR, when CMR had a heralded contract. Again, I don't know what the rates are when they're an all Dash fleet
4) NJA contract
5) World Airways
Of course all of these were accomplished by each individual pilot group, as there is very little support from the International. ALPA beats them hands down with support functions.
I just want to point out that being a teamster is FAR better than non-union shop.
After being a member of both unions, I'd say ALPA is far better, but the IBT will be as strong as the airline's members want it to be.
Seggy
Well-Known Member
First NJA are in a decertification drive for the teamsters. A lot of NetJet Pilots are not happy with the teamsters and there is a good possibility that they are going to have their own union.
http://www.ainonline.com/ain-and-ai...eek-independent-union-1/?no_cache=1&tx_ttnews[story_pointer]=5
Besides the pay rates, tell me why Horizon has a great contract compared to ExpressJet, Pinnacle, Mesaba, or PSA. A contract has a lot more to do than straight pay rates.
Mike, take a look at the comments from guys at Teamster representated airlines on here. What are they saying?
NJA_Capt
Well-Known Member
What a total load of propaganda!!!!
I'm not siding with either horse in this race, but lets expand on these "facts" a little, shall we.
ALPA has 40 Locals, the IBT has 500
ALPA has 55,000 members, the IBT has 1.4 MILLION !
To give an accurate comparison, you would have to provide "pilot" allegations for the IBT and ALPA. You cannot include the dockworkers, truck drivers and factory workers allegations.
If ALPA showed up for a card drive at NJA they would be chased out of town with pitchforks.