XJT Rejects SKW's Takeover Bid

flyguy said:
All I can say is SkyWest has been in business 35 years. They have been through plenty of rough times before. They have never had a union, and still managed to make it through the rough times without a mass pilot exodous like a certain ALPA carrier which 8 of 25 in my new-hire class used to fly for.
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Your not gonna convince me that it is ever OK for a huge pilot group to have no legal representation. Your management does a good job, I will give them that, you company is doing really well, Ill give you that as well. But if management is so great and treats everyone so well it would seem like they would welcome a union. I really have no dog in this fight but it is a touchy subject for me because you guys are about to buy out and screw over hundreds of pilots that have taken their time and money to vote in a union to improve the industry as a whole while all Skywest has done is say that we are above unions and don't really care to help the rest of the industry or even yourselves for that matter. We will see how kind your management is with how they treat all the Xjet guys...
 
flyguy said:
All I can say is SkyWest has been in business 35 years. They have been through plenty of rough times before. They have never had a union, and still managed to make it through the rough times without a mass pilot exodous like a certain ALPA carrier which 8 of 25 in my new-hire class used to fly for.
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How long was Continental in business before Lorenzo came and re-wrote the playbook? Things change. Call me crazy, but I like having some insurance in my corner.
 
flyguy said:
All I can say is SkyWest has been in business 35 years. They have been through plenty of rough times before.
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What is the point of this statement? Colgan, Republic Airways Holdings, Comair, Mesaba, etc have been around for as long as Skywest.

Things change overtime.
 
kellwolf said:
How long was Continental in business before Lorenzo came and re-wrote the playbook? Things change. Call me crazy, but I like having some insurance in my corner.
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This is actually an even better example than you probably realize. ALPA came to the Continental property when Bob Six was still CEO. When the pilots came to Bob and let him know that they were interested in starting up a union and having a representational vote, Bob (being the incredible guy that he was) told them that they wouldn't have to have a vote. He would agree to recognize ALPA as their bargaining agent without having a vote! The pilots were overjoyed, and Bob signed their first CBA with a Section 1 that included the recognition of ALPA without ever having a vote through the NMB. It was really amazing. Bob understood the benefits that unions bring, and he definitely understood the importance of a great working relationship with his pilots.

But then Bob was forced out when Lorenzo and his fellow Texas Air goons came in and acquired CAL through force. When Lorenzo took CAL into bankruptcy, his fancy anti-labor attorneys (including many of whom still work in airline "labor relations" law, some of whom work for Ford & Harrison, which represents Skywest management) determined that they had a great argument for decertifying ALPA in court by claiming that they were never a legal bargaining agent in the first place. Their claims was that the Section 1 language that Bob Six has signed in the CBA wasn't enough, because there had never been an NMB sanctioned vote. The courts agreed, saying that the only legal representation of an employee group in the air line industry would have to come through the election process outlined in the RLA. Since that never took place, the courts agreed with Lorenzo's goons that ALPA was not a legal bargaining agent, and ALPA ceased to exist at CAL.

See the parallels, Bumblebee? Remember, Lorenzo's former attorneys are under retainer by your management team. They have been for several years. Something to keep in mind.
 
Seggy said:
What is the point of this statement? Colgan, Republic Airways Holdings, Comair, Mesaba, etc have been around for as long as Skywest.

Things change overtime.
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My point was, everyone keeps talking about how SkyWest will only be good when times are good. Are you guys suggesting there have not been any bad times in the last 35 years? There have been lots of hard times for SkyWest and the entire industry in that time. Yet SkyWest, and its pilot group, has survived them all. You all keep warning that management could at any time pull the rug out from under us and screw us over just because they can. But in 35 years, they have not done so. I know its hard to understand because corporate America is so greedy and everyone is only interrested in their own personal gain. That's just not the way SkyWest is run. In 35 years management has demonstrated that they are interrsted in the good of the entire company and all of its employees, not just a handfull of excecutives at the top of the ladder. They have demonstrated this in good times and in bad. So they have earned our trust.
 
flyguy said:
My point was, everyone keeps talking about how SkyWest will only be good when times are good. Are you guys suggesting there have not been any bad times in the last 35 years? There have been lots of hard times for SkyWest and the entire industry in that time. Yet SkyWest, and its pilot group, has survived them all. You all keep warning that management could at any time pull the rug out from under us and screw us over just because they can. But in 35 years, they have not done so. I know its hard to understand because corporate America is so greedy and everyone is only interrested in their own personal gain. That's just not the way SkyWest is run. In 35 years management has demonstrated that they are interrsted in the good of the entire company and all of its employees, not just a handfull of excecutives at the top of the ladder. They have demonstrated this in good times and in bad. So they have earned our trust.
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Round and round we go... Maybe the other tens of thousands of pilots that have unions are just wrong and don't know what they are talking about. I'm just going to agree to disagree with you.
 
flyguy said:
My point was, everyone keeps talking about how SkyWest will only be good when times are good. Are you guys suggesting there have not been any bad times in the last 35 years? There have been lots of hard times for SkyWest and the entire industry in that time. Yet SkyWest, and its pilot group, has survived them all. You all keep warning that management could at any time pull the rug out from under us and screw us over just because they can. But in 35 years, they have not done so. I know its hard to understand because corporate America is so greedy and everyone is only interrested in their own personal gain. That's just not the way SkyWest is run. In 35 years management has demonstrated that they are interrsted in the good of the entire company and all of its employees, not just a handfull of excecutives at the top of the ladder. They have demonstrated this in good times and in bad. So they have earned our trust.
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Also with this buyout offer they may not be screwing you guys but they are going to screw the Xjet pilots pretty bad. If you were unionized the union wouldn't let that happen. So your saying I couldn't care less what happens to those Xjet guys so long as the company treats me good.
 
flyguy said:
My point was, everyone keeps talking about how SkyWest will only be good when times are good. Are you guys suggesting there have not been any bad times in the last 35 years? There have been lots of hard times for SkyWest and the entire industry in that time. Yet SkyWest, and its pilot group, has survived them all. You all keep warning that management could at any time pull the rug out from under us and screw us over just because they can. But in 35 years, they have not done so. I know its hard to understand because corporate America is so greedy and everyone is only interrested in their own personal gain. That's just not the way SkyWest is run. In 35 years management has demonstrated that they are interrsted in the good of the entire company and all of its employees, not just a handfull of excecutives at the top of the ladder. They have demonstrated this in good times and in bad. So they have earned our trust.
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I think it's great that management and the pilots seem to have a good working accord.

I'm not going to get into the union vs non-union rhetoric.

But, in todays world with oil at $120, CEO's banking millions in bonuses, and concessions, not that far of a memory.

I find it foolish for anyone to fully trust management.

You're labor, you're expected to be marginalized. Managements job by definition is to maximize your work, while paying you less (whether you're union or not) while maximizine the companies/stockholder profits and their pocket book.

The days of labor and management working cohesively in corp america is long since gone.

Today, on both sides of the alley, it's "us vs them."

I think you'd be wise to learn that new reality, quickly.



Oh, and Todd. I like ya man. But lay off Bumblebee. He truely is one of the nicest guys you'll ever meet.

He truly is an asset to the industry, and you're turning him off, and you know not the harm you do.
 
We're arguing about which regional airline is better? That is almost parallel to an argument you'd find on ratemypoo.com.

We ALL have a LONG way to go before we'll be at the level of pay and benefits we deserve. Regardless if you have a union or not, nobody is doing exceptionally better than anyone else.
 
SoCalAprch said:
Also with this buyout offer they may not be screwing you guys but they are going to screw the Xjet pilots pretty bad. If you were unionized the union wouldn't let that happen. So your saying I couldn't care less what happens to those Xjet guys so long as the company treats me good.
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Right on the nose. They're basically saying to the XJT guys "We're gonna buy you, but you have to waive your rights." That doesn't sound like the magnanimous, fair management some of the cheerleaders here make them out to be. If they were, they'd just buy them and leave the contract intact. But, that would mean a better chance of a union on property. If management is so great, why do they fight unionization so hard? Look at XJT. They have an OUTSTANDING management-labor relationship, and they're heavily union.
 
Seggy said:
Look I know bumblebee he is FAR from arrogant. He has one of the biggest hearts out there out of anyone I know.
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Heck yeah, I love that guy!

He's the first to arrive and the last to leave when you need help.
 
flyguy said:
You all keep warning that management could at any time pull the rug out from under us and screw us over just because they can. But in 35 years, they have not done so.
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And from 1936 to 1981 (45 years), Bob Six treated his employees like gold. But then Frank Lorenzo came along and showed us all just how evil management can be. You like to point to 35 years of labor harmony, but what about the next 35 years? What about the next 3? Atkin could keel over tomorrow. What happens then? What happens if the mainline code-share partners put the screws to him to get CPA concessions from him? There are a lot of scenarios that could result in your situation being far worse than the last 35 years. Better to be prepared than to get caught with your britches down.

Maximillian_Jenius said:
Oh, and Todd. I like ya man. But lay off Bumblebee. He truely is one of the nicest guys you'll ever meet.

He truly is an asset to the industry, and you're turning him off, and you know not the harm you do.
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He may be a "nice guy," but I find it difficult to respect someone who refuses to answer a simple yes or no question.
 
PCL_128 said:
He may be a "nice guy," but I find it difficult to respect someone who refuses to answer a simple yes or no question.
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Get over it. Some people don't want all their thoughts and opinions plastered all over the internet where anyone may be able to read them.
 
jtrain609 said:
Want to try to get this one back on track, guys? I'm going to end up working for Skywest one way or another at this point, and I dunno about the rest of ya'll, but I'm trying to figure out if it's on the bottom of Skywest and at the top of a staple job, or if it'll be on the bottom of an ExpressJet/Skywest combined list after the staple job.
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Don't worry there won't be a merger of the lists. It can't happen, so don't worry about a staple job.
 
PCL_128 said:
Because of the <edited> forum rules, I can't really tell you what I think of you. Use your imagination.
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the forum rules aren't stopping you from discussing in private. Don't blame the forum for stifling your wanton behavior ;) :p
 
You can respect someone and disagree with some of their views. It doesn't necessarily mean they're an enemy to be vanquished at all costs, just different perspectives on the issue.
 
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