UND Seminole Crash from Oct. 07

Malko

ughhh
Staff member
Fatal UND plane crash likely caused by geese

Associated Press

Last update: April 9, 2008 - 7:32 AM

GRAND FORKS, N.D. - The dean of the University of North Dakota aerospace school says a National Transportation Safety Board report suggests a goose impact likely caused the crash of a UND airplane last October.

Twenty-year-old student Adam Ostapenko of Duluth, Minnesota, and 22-year-old instructor Annette Klosterman of Seattle died when the twin-engine Piper Seminole crashed in a swampy area in central Minnesota on Oct. 23.

The two were on a routine training flight from St. Paul, Minn., to Grand Forks.

UND aerospace dean Bruce Smith says there was a large dent on the plane's left wing and another dent on the plane's tail section, and that goose remains were found.

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20071102X01708&key=1

Goose impact? I know the rats with wings are big birds, but bringing down the plane...Maybe a contributing factor I would imagine. I would be curious to see the NTSB report.

UND'ers have you folks seen/heard anything from the school?
 
From what I heard, a goose impacted the wing, sheared part of it off, then impacted the horizontal stabilizer. This twisted the stabilizer and that brought the plane down inverted. Most of this happened within 30 seconds of impact.

Of course, that is just what I heard from word of mouth.
 
From what I heard, a goose impacted the wing, sheared part of it off, then impacted the horizontal stabilizer. This twisted the stabilizer and that brought the plane down inverted. Most of this happened within 30 seconds of impact.

Of course, that is just what I heard from word of mouth.

Yup, that's what they tell us. It could happen I guess. I wonder when the NTSB's final report will come out...
 
Dont underestimate the power of the goose, especially the canadian variety.

ntsb said:
NYC02LA008

On October 13, 2001, about 1900 eastern daylight time, an Aerospatiale ATR 42-320, N34820, was substantially damaged during a bird strike, while in cruise flight near Yardley, Pennsylvania. The airplane was operated by Continental Express Airlines Inc. as flight 3354. There were no injuries to the 3 crewmembers and 26 passengers. Visual meteorological conditions prevailed for the flight that departed Norfolk International Airport, Norfolk, Virginia, about 1745. An instrument flight rules flight plan was filed for the scheduled air carrier flight conducted under 14 CFR Part 121.

The flight crew reported that they were en route to Newark International Airport (EWR), Newark, New Jersey, at 5,000 feet; when they experienced a loud bang and subsequent roll and yaw of the airplane. They also experienced a severe buffeting and the autopilot disengaged. The flight crew then observed that the number two power lever was jammed in a 68 percent torque position, and the airplane was unstable about the roll axis. The flight crew then declared an emergency and landed uneventfully at EWR.

Post flight inspection of the airplane by maintenance personnel revealed damaged to the right wing outboard leading edge and a hole in the center fairing. They believed that the damage was caused by a collision with two Canada geese.

Examination of the airplane by a Federal Aviation Administration inspector revealed damage to the right wing spar cap, outer spar, ribs, and lower skin aft of the spar. Additionally, the inspector noted damage to the area of center section control pulleys, and that the number 2 engine throttle control pulley was broken.
 
I have never seen any reports on it, but I remember my dad telling me about a C5 that was nearly taken down by a flock of geese at Dover AFB. I was in the back of a plane that hit a Seagull at about 110 kts. It put a basketball size dent in the wing. I can't imagine what a direct hit to the stabilator would do to a Seminole. One of those through the windshield could eaisly incapacitate that crew.

Alex.
 
Dont underestimate the power of the goose, especially the canadian variety.
Too bad the Canadians still won't let us hunt them. Not that they'd be any good for anything, but I could go for less of them flocking everywhere, less of them in the sky and less of their crap all over the place.
 
I have never seen any reports on it, but I remember my dad telling me about a C5 that was nearly taken down by a flock of geese at Dover AFB. I was in the back of a plane that hit a Seagull at about 110 kts. It put a basketball size dent in the wing. I can't imagine what a direct hit to the stabilator would do to a Seminole. One of those through the windshield could eaisly incapacitate that crew.

Alex.

I think the word you're looking for is "de-capitate" :D

I forgot to add.... I've never found the Seminole to be a particularly good airplane. However, no airplane of its size could really stand up to a birdstrike it seems. Anyone recall the Mythbusters ep where they tested the frozen chicken against the plexiglass (probably not exactly that material) airplane windshield?!? I don't really think they busted a myth though - I mean anyone with half a brain should know that a frozen chicken shot from a cannon will destroy plastic.
 
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=20071102X01708&key=1

Goose impact? I know the rats with wings are big birds, but bringing down the plane...Maybe a contributing factor I would imagine. I would be curious to see the NTSB report.

UND'ers have you folks seen/heard anything from the school?
not just 1 goose, 2 geese or more is what we are talking about, they believe they flew into a flock of geese.. most likely not the same goose struck the wing then the horizontal stab. the one that hit the stabilator twisted the left side (if i remember correctly) almost 90 degrees so it was like a 3 or 4 foot wall flying thru the air. caused a pitch up motion, airspeed went from 150 to 50ish in a matter of 2 seconds, from there they spun to the ground because the heading was changing rapidly and the airspeed stayed around 50. they were descending at close to 10,000fpm. all this air data came from the PFD when they downloaded it. they found goose dna on the stabiliator and wing.

i am still waiting for the official, but this is what they told us instructors last week in an hour long meeting
 
WoW....didn't realize it twisted the stabliator that bad. Had to be more than one goose. Didn't realize the plane had a black box of sorts for the PFD.....
 
WoW....didn't realize it twisted the wing that bad. Had to be more than one goose. Didn't realize the plane had a black box of sorts for the PFD.....
wing didn't twist, the stabilator on the tail did! and i didn't know the PFD had a data logger either, but i do now. you should have seen the pics, you would definetly believe it was geese if you saw them! they were respectful pics not showing the deceased, just the plane
 
wing didn't twist, the stabilator on the tail did! and i didn't know the PFD had a data logger either, but i do now. you should have seen the pics, you would definetly believe it was geese if you saw them! they were respectful pics not showing the deceased, just the plane

oops, disconnect between brain and keyboard. changed from wing.....
 
That tears it, I propose mandatory anticollision lights for all fowl larger than a pigeon from sunset to sunrise!
 
WoW....didn't realize it twisted the stabliator that bad. Had to be more than one goose. Didn't realize the plane had a black box of sorts for the PFD.....
Most GPS's have flash memory in them that records back a certain amount of time...I know for a fact Garmin 430's and 530's do.
 
Too bad the Canadians still won't let us hunt them. Not that they'd be any good for anything, but I could go for less of them flocking everywhere, less of them in the sky and less of their crap all over the place.

Really? What state are you from?

Maybe some states don't allow the the hunting of "honkers," but in ND, it's blast away.
 
Really?

I guess I've been poaching for the last 15 years then.

Maybe some states don't allow the the hunting of "honkers," but in ND, it's blast away.

I don't hunt but them damn rats are all over the place here in Minny. Leaving their friggin droppings everywhere. They are dumb birds too. You don't have to go far to see the roadkill.
 
I was shocked this morning when I saw the pictures of the airplane. Half of the stablilator was bent 90 degrees. I had NO idea a goose could do that much damage to an aircraft.
 
I don't hunt but them damn rats are all over the place here in Minny. Leaving their friggin droppings everywhere. They are dumb birds too. You don't have to go far to see the roadkill.
i learned last week that they are not migratory either! they just go from open water to open water. hence why there are so many down there, just never knew that before
 
Back
Top