Tenative Job Offers??

[RobertB]

Alright Dude-First of all, let me say that I did not read the entire post and I admit my fault. It seemed like a peculiar response and I was quick to label arrogance.

That said, you will NOT be PREFERENTIALLY sped through the system like a wonder child and offered a position next week!!!! I PROMISE!!

Don't start disrespecting me and saying you hope others are chosen over me-that is a little uncalled for. I am "Well Qualified." I scored mid 90's AT-SAT and have a PPL and Airline Dispatch License, and I'm a Meteorologist. BUT, I'm humble enough to know that this job will be TOUGH. And I won't be one of the little bastard know it-all trainees that the experienced controllers training us will want to kill-I keep it real!!

Let me know when you are hired "within the month" and I'll eat my words. I'm not being pulled along at snails pace because Im so much less than you.

It's cool man and I accept your fault in not reading what was written.

Did I ever say that I would be preferentially treated, accelerated through the system, and offered a job next week? No! I said that my chances of being selected before someone with a score of a 85 with the same qualifications will be much quicker. The point of the AT SAT is to rank people into categories. Not just qualified and well qualified. If a 100 and a 85 were the same rank, then what is the point of giving numeric grades??? Scores would just be labeled 'not qualified,' 'qualified,' and 'well qualified.' There is a difference between different scores. The FAA knows this and so should you!

You disrespected me by assuming I was being arrogant, why shouldn't the favor be returned? The job will be tough. I know this and many others do too. I don't believe to be a 'know it all.' I just realize the importance of a good AT SAT score and the necessary qualifications. I also know that the FAA considers the AT SAT to be a great importance or they wouldn't spend millions of dollars testing potential hirees.

Again, let me reiterate the words that were said...I said,"I hope to be called in for an interview within the next month." I never mentioned that I expected to be 'hired within a month.' An interview doesn't guarantee an immediate job offer. I don't see why I don't have a chance to be called in 'within a month' for an interview.

 

[Beehive]

Don't start disrespecting me and saying you hope others are chosen over me-that is a little uncalled for. I am "Well Qualified." I scored mid 90's AT-SAT and have a PPL and Airline Dispatch License, and I'm a Meteorologist. BUT, I'm humble enough to know that this job will be TOUGH. And I won't be one of the little bastard know it-all trainees that the experienced controllers training us will want to kill-I keep it real!!

More proof...Vortmax was choosen before me for the same region and I had a slightly higher ATSAT score him. They liked his background and experience over my high score.
I was told they look for folks with aviation experience. If it is a good amount of experience I think it is similar to adding 30+ extra points on your ATSAT score. So I picture it has Vortmax getting a 125 compared to my 98.
Hope everyone hears something within a month.

 

[dublin_mule]

I spoke with the lady at the FAA yesterday. She informed me that 85-100 or "well Qualified" will get first dibs. And get their geographic preference e-mails first. Of course the higher you score the more attention it will draw. However, if you select a place that is a high geographic selection, you will be drug along at a snails pace. Not meaning that those that scored low are getting just as much attention, just that there are so many applicants.

So, at the end of the call I asked her the direct question. "Does the AT-SAT carry a lot of weight in the hiring process?" She replied,"ABSOLUTELY!" She said other aspects are looked at, but the AT SAT comes first, then education/experience, etc.

I was also told that everyone will be put in piles according to the same order of quals that I mentioned above. The centers themselves will then pull from those piles as to whom they interview.

 

[Beehive]

If they continue selecting applicants for facilities the same way as today, than a selecting official from each facility goes to OKC for a week and sifts through all the apps he/she wants or has time for and selects the amount of applicants they need. It's up to that selecting official to choose who he/she wants in that facility. Some are different than others but S56/SLC was looking for applicants with aviation experience and lived in the area. The facility manager asked what my ATSAT score was, congratulated me and that was all that was said that concerned the ATSAT.

 

[MrFent]

I find all the bickering in this thread very amusing.

 

[JT ATC]

How is everything else I have written untrue? It is true because it came from the FAA website. Your AT SAT score determines where you are in line, in a geographic region, with the same qualifications as others applying during the same opening time period.

ZSE and ZID are no way near the TRACONs in Atlanta, New York, Boston, Washington D.C. in terms of air traffic and intensity from air traffic. I am sure that a person with a 77% or a 81% on the AT SAT, with no air traffic experience would be laughed out the door if they tried to apply to one of these larger TRACONS.

Ya, your AT-SAT might determine where you are in line BEHIND prior military, DOD, or civilian controllers and CTI students...

Oh...and ZID is a level 12 facility, so it's obviously somewhere near those facilities....

And by the way, A test score doesn't control traffic. I'd just be quiet until you get a rating. No one cares if you scored a 100 or a 77. It's all about how well you "push tin." It takes a special person to control traffic. I'm a rated military controller, I know.

Don't get me wrong, I want to see everyone succeed. I'm just saying, don't go to your facility being cocky or arrogant cuz you scored well on a test and passed OKC. You ain't seen nothing yet...

Oh, I'm a rated controller and I wasn't "hired in a month." Good luck with that. Chill the cocky attitude when you get to your facility or you will be in for a very rough ride. No one wants to help out an arrogant trainee

 

[wve_iii]

I too find the posts in this thread interesting. I especially like how if I post regarding something I want to know, someone is eventually going to find the number to OKC in HR and call and ask them directly. This is wonderful since I have no clue where everyone is getting the numbers and I personally dont want to call and bug them. I am kind of curious how old everyone is that is posting on here? and what kind of real world work/life experience everyone has? It seems as though alot of people are fresh out of college, young ( like 22 and below ), and not alot of work experience (like a full-time post college degree type of job). I may be wrong though, just basing some of it on the demographics of the small group I tested with.

 

[RobertB]

Ya, your AT-SAT might determine where you are in line BEHIND prior military, DOD, or civilian controllers and CTI students...

Oh...and ZID is a level 12 facility, so it's obviously somewhere near those facilities....

And by the way, A test score doesn't control traffic. I'd just be quiet until you get a rating. No one cares if you scored a 100 or a 77. It's all about how well you "push tin." It takes a special person to control traffic. I'm a rated military controller, I know.

Don't get me wrong, I want to see everyone succeed. I'm just saying, don't go to your facility being cocky or arrogant cuz you scored well on a test and passed OKC. You ain't seen nothing yet...

Oh, I'm a rated controller and I wasn't "hired in a month." Good luck with that. Chill the cocky attitude when you get to your facility or you will be in for a very rough ride. No one wants to help out an arrogant trainee

I KNOW that I will be behind CTI students! They have a different selection process than the general public with no air traffic experience! Out of the roughly 1,800 hired last year, 1,000 of them went to CTI schools that notified and nominated them for positions with the FAA. Roughly 600 more people were given spots who had prior air traffic experience. That leaves almost 200 spots open for the general public with no air traffic experience. So how is the general public going to be divided into rank? By their AT SAT scores and educational/progressively responsible work experience. Most importantly, the AT SAT score since everyone who applies from the general public has to take it.

Sure ZID is a level 12, but it doesn't have near the air traffic congestion as some other TRACONS like: New York, Boston, Washington D.C., and Atlanta and that's what was stated. I never denied that ZID was a larger TRACON, but there are larger ones out there.

I realize that a test score doesn't control traffic, but it is the only way for the FAA to rank people with no air traffic control experience. It is a test designed to see who is most capable of controlling and learning how to control air traffic. Congratulations you must be a genius! Read the first post and see why I responded. It is about 'pushing tin,' but a high AT SAT score over a low one is going to give you that chance faster. Damn, how hard is that for people to understand on this board?

I am not going in cocky. I am just smart enough to realize that a good AT SAT, when applying from the general public, is going to give you that chance sooner than a low AT SAT score. I've seen plenty and know enough to know what I am getting into. Have I personal moved air traffic? No, but I atleast know and have understood how things work well enough to be able to go to the academy and learn to succeed as an air traffic controller. It is a hard job, everyone knows that. Don't assume people are cocky because they were answering questions asked in this post.

The hope was to get an interview within a month. Not get hired. Getting hired would be nice. Read what was written and you will see that you are mistaken. It just amuses me how people think that I am being cocky when I was answering a question that was directed to people who made a 100 on the AT SAT. I also find it rather entertaining that some people on here really believe that two people, with the same background/qualifications, who scored 100 v 85 on the AT SAT have an equal opportunity to get hired in the same amount of time. The FAA wouldn't spend millions of dollars testing potential hirees and trying to separate them if a 100 and a 85 meant the same thing! Everyone would be labeled 'well qualified' and you wouldn't even receive a numeric score!

 

[tilli5285]

[/QUOTE]I realize that a test score doesn't control traffic, but it is the only way for the FAA to rank people with no air traffic control experience. It is a test designed to see who is most capable of controlling and learning how to control air traffic. Congratulations you must be a genius! Read the first post and see why I responded. It is about 'pushing tin,' but a high AT SAT score over a low one is going to give you that chance faster. Damn, how hard is that for people to understand on this board? [/QUOTE]
I actually read the FAA report about the AT-SAT and it seemed as though the test was designed to figure out who would succeed at OKC. Obviously it would also have some indication of how one would do in the field of air traffic control but it was to weed out those who couldn't make it at the academy. Check out the report and let me know what you think.

It just amuses me how people think that I am being cocky when I was answering a question that was directed to people who made a 100 on the AT SAT.I also find it rather entertaining that some people on here really believe that two people, with the same background/qualifications, who scored 100 v 85 on the AT SAT have an equal opportunity to get hired in the same amount of time.

I definitely don't think you are cocky however I would like to point out that I have a friend who recieved an 88 and is headed to ZNY. Another candidate who I've spoke with personally who also applied to the NY opening from last year had a 98 and is headed to ELM tower. Person with the 88-LVL 12, 98-LVL 5. I don't think there is really any guage for how the FAA selects people other than well-qualified and qualified. After they determine that, i think they look at other qualifications and where you live to determine who gets picked.

ZSE and ZID are no way near the TRACONs in Atlanta, New York, Boston, Washington D.C. in terms of air traffic and intensity from air traffic. I am sure that a person with a 77% or a 81% on the AT SAT, with no air traffic experience would be laughed out the door if they tried to apply to one of these larger TRACONS.

I'm afraid you're wrong in the above quote.
Here are my qualifications:
Age: 22
ATSAT: 82% (Village moron) haha
4 year degree(aviation related)
Solid amount of flying experience.
4.5 years of full-time work experience
Selected for ZID- Declined
Selected for N90- Accepted-ehh didn't want to turn down another
Recieved tentative : N90-NY TRACON-
My point is that I wasn't laughed out the door. I was the one laughing that they selected me for N90. I put in a request for a switch and I should find out whether it goes throught or not this week. All I wanted was a nice lvl 7 or 8 tower to start in and work my way up. I am a little bit intimidated but also excited to have the opportunity. All of your comments would appear to be doubting my ability to make it. I welcome them with open arms. I know the work ethic I have and how I committ to something. I have been told by the few controllers I know, that this job can be learned with hard work. It is definitely not for alot of people but is much more than a test score or getting through OKC(heard OKC is a joke). I can't guarantee I will make it but I promise you I will give 100%. Good luck to you.

 

[RobertB]

[/quote]
I actually read the FAA report about the AT-SAT and it seemed as though the test was designed to figure out who would succeed at OKC. Obviously it would also have some indication of how one would do in the field of air traffic control but it was to weed out those who couldn't make it at the academy. Check out the report and let me know what you think.


I definitely don't think you are cocky however I would like to point out that I have a friend who recieved an 88 and is headed to ZNY. Another candidate who I've spoke with personally who also applied to the NY opening from last year had a 98 and is headed to ELM tower. Person with the 88-LVL 12, 98-LVL 5. I don't think there is really any guage for how the FAA selects people other than well-qualified and qualified. After they determine that, i think they look at other qualifications and where you live to determine who gets picked.

I'm afraid you're wrong in the above quote.
Here are my qualifications:
Age: 22
ATSAT: 82% (Village moron) haha
4 year degree(aviation related)
Solid amount of flying experience.
4.5 years of full-time work experience
Selected for ZID- Declined
Selected for N90- Accepted-ehh didn't want to turn down another
Recieved tentative : N90-NY TRACON-
My point is that I wasn't laughed out the door. I was the one laughing that they selected me for N90. I put in a request for a switch and I should find out whether it goes throught or not this week. All I wanted was a nice lvl 7 or 8 tower to start in and work my way up. I am a little bit intimidated but also excited to have the opportunity. All of your comments would appear to be doubting my ability to make it. I welcome them with open arms. I know the work ethic I have and how I committ to something. I have been told by the few controllers I know, that this job can be learned with hard work. It is definitely not for alot of people but is much more than a test score or getting through OKC(heard OKC is a joke). I can't guarantee I will make it but I promise you I will give 100%. Good luck to you.[/quote]

tilli5285,
Yeah, I just read the report and you are right. It was designed to see who had the cognitive and non-cognitive ability to either make it or not at the academy. It is supposed to be a predictor of how well someone can and hopefully will do in air traffic. The House of Representatives committee reports about the FAA are pretty interesting to read if you get the chance.

I understand that some people get accepted into certain places and/or facilities that scored lower than others on the AT SAT. A lot of things go into your admission or denial into the FAA. The point I was trying to make to others is that if you have no air traffic experience and the same qualifications (college, job(s), etc.) you have a much better chance to make it to a PEPC and/or to get an invite to the FAA Academy if you score higher on the AT SAT than other people with the same qualifications. Someone suggested that the Selection Committee doesn't see your school when choosing people. I think that is absolutely wrong. They will be able to see what you scored on the AT SAT because that will be the only basis for comparing people with the same qualifications and no air traffic experience. Your location would then be the next most important thing when you are considered for a job. Because of the high demand in certain areas, certain qualification or grades on the AT SAT will either allow you to possibly get a job there or not get an offer from that region.

I wasn't wrong about that quote. If someone scores a 77% or a 81% and tries to apply to one of those areas when they have no air traffic experience they will be laughed at. You were accepted because you had: an aviation related four year degree, flying experience, etc. Because of the aviation experience, you were accepted into the FAA because these qualifications made your AT SAT score better. I was saying that someone without these qualifications (flying, aviation degree, etc.) would not be given a position at a larger TRACON because they didn't qualify with a 77%, 81%, or 82%. I just really don't think that the FAA spends millions of dollars to test the general public to determine that a 100 and a 85 are the same thing since they both mean 'well qualified.' Others things go into whether you are hired or not, but your AT SAT score is the most important thing if you have no air traffic experience.

I was not doubting your ability. I thank you for being civil and actually trying to understand what I was saying without thinking I was arrogant, a know it all, etc. I appreciate that you demonstrated through your own experience about getting into the FAA. I was just talking about the importance of the AT SAT for people with no air traffic or aviation experience because it sets the standard for the general public with the same qualifications.

I wish you the best of luck and hopefully one day I will get to work beside someone with the drive, determination, and intelligence that you have shown by responding accurately and intelligently on this forum.

 

[whysoserial]

I wish you the best of luck and hopefully one day I will get to work beside someone with the drive, determination, and intelligence that you have shown by responding accurately and intelligently on this forum.

Can't help but tear this one apart. Too funny.

So because you disagree with most other posts on here telling you the same thing...they are unintelligent? Everyone is telling you the same thing, you refuse to accept it. You are in for a rough one I'm afraid.

Don't be a dick

True professionalism.

 

[RobertB]

Can't help but tear this one apart. Too funny.

So because you disagree with most other posts on here telling you the same thing...they are unintelligent? Everyone is telling you the same thing, you refuse to accept it. You are in for a rough one I'm afraid.



True professionalism.

Intelligence: capacity for learning, reasoning, understanding, and similar forms of mental activity; aptitude in grasping truths, relationships, facts, meanings, etc.

Some people on here act unintelligent because they don't READ and/or UNDERSTAND questions that were being asked and the responses that were given for a particular reason. Not everyone is telling me the same thing. Many people believe that the AT SAT score is the biggest part of a person's resume when applying for the FAA when they have no air traffic experience. Some people think that a 100 and a 85 for people with the same qualifications and no air traffic experience is on an equal playing field because they are both 'well qualified.'

I could have just said Richard Noggin as a code word if you want it to be more professional...

So much for not 'wasting anymore time with me...'

 

[SteveC]

General note for all: Stay on topic and avoid personal attacks.

 

[whysoserial]

Mmmmmhmmmm.

Keep playing that card buddy.

 

[SteveC]

Mmmmmhmmmm.

Keep playing that card buddy.

Mind clarifying who you're directing that towards???

 

[whysoserial]

RobertB.

 

[rctaber]

So, comparing Person A (me) to Person B (someone like RobertB, who scored 100 on ATSAT)....

• Person A scores an 88
• Person B scores 100
• Person A has a Bachelors from Northwestern University (one of the best schools in the country)
• Person B has a bachelors from GA State (not quite, or even close to Northwestern)
• Person A started their career as a Customer Service Rep in a large corporation and through hard work and steady advancement is now a supervisor/manager in charge of an Accounting Department of more than 20 employees
• Person B started thier career working as a dishwasher at Wendys and is now making over $20 per hour running the drive-thru

If you are running the FAA a facility or tower, who do you take?

Robert B, it may look like A & B are both equal because they meet the 4 year requirement and show a work history with advancement but there are too many factors to assume that a higher test score will get you in. I am not saying you worked at Wendy's but there are people applying to this position who have achieved some great things and it is ignorant for you to think you are more qualified or will get to the front of the line because you had a higher test score.

 

[wve_iii]

So, comparing Person A (me) to Person B (someone like RobertB, who scored 100 on ATSAT)....

• Person A scores an 88
• Person B scores 100
• Person A has a Bachelors from Northwestern University (one of the best schools in the country)
• Person B has a bachelors from GA State (not quite, or even close to Northwestern)
• Person A started their career as a Customer Service Rep in a large corporation and through hard work and steady advancement is now a supervisor/manager in charge of an Accounting Department of more than 20 employees
• Person B started thier career working as a dishwasher at Wendys and is now making over $20 per hour running the drive-thru

If you are running the FAA a facility or tower, who do you take?

Robert B, it may look like A & B are both equal because they meet the 4 year requirement and show a work history with advancement but there are too many factors to assume that a higher test score will get you in. I am not saying you worked at Wendy's but there are people applying to this position who have achieved some great things and it is ignorant for you to think you are more qualified or will get to the front of the line because you had a higher test score.

LOL, you think because someone went to "Northwestern" that makes them more qualified?? What did he/she major in? History? Art? Music? LOL Anyways the FAA really doesnt care what you majored in or where you went. In the private industry what college you went amy have some effect but really only for the first job out of college and when it comes to most govt jobs they really generally dont care they just want to know you meet the requirements. But after your first job, your work experience generally speaks for you and your degree is seen as "B.S. or B.A" and name of college really doesnt matter. A degree shows the same traits as progressive work experience, It shows that you a capable of long term commitment to something (generally you cant finish your degree by being a lazy) which shows them responsibility. Personally if it were me and I have spent all this money developeing this test im going to use it as the indicator as to whether some one has the necessary skills to perform the job. Then Im going to use their experience(work and school) to determine if they are going to have the commitment and motivation to complete the program. Therefore no matter what school you go to or what job you do, if you show a progressive ability to succeed then you probably possess the ability to do so with the FAA as well. Second of all why would it matter what job someone started their career at? I started at Mcdonalds when I was 15 and I am damned proud of it. In fact most people start jobs this way. There is typically a limited number of jobs that are available at this age. Great that you got a job at an accounting company and that its a "Large Corporation" (is it a FORTUNE 500 or anything else special ). But I think that actually your work background is not very diverse, if youve worked for the same company for your entire working career. I would never want to give up starting at Mcdonalds and working my way up through different jobs. I think with a little diversity in your work experience you get to meet alot of different people and see how things are done differently at different places. In fact the working relationships you pick up while changing jobs early in your career are great learning experience. And I bet you wouldnt think of a Wendys manager as a cake job if you had to go deal with teenagers all day.

But overall if youve done great things and went to a great school and your that well qualifiesd for the job. What was your problem with the test. I mean honestly this was a fairly easy exam. I beleive that this test has been thought out pretty thoroughly and a lot of money has been spent on it. So I really dont understand the Person A and Person B comparison. If you are as qualified and good as you say then this should have reflected itsslef in the exam.

 

[brianjgault]

Holy cow did poor Robert open the floodgates.

Guys, my own take on what Robert is trying to say is that the only variable he is using in his analysis is the AT-SAT score. (i.e. - he is attempting to use the scientific method to "prove" his hypothesis where every other variable is part of the "control" and is the exact same) Thus, I am interpreting his definition of "equal" qualifications as meaning both candidates had the exact same schooling, work history, etc...and the only variable for a selection panel to differentiate a candidate would be the AT-SAT.

Now, practically speaking this will never happen...but I think you guys are using an awful lot of energy trying to "prove" how he's wrong in what he's saying by coming up with scenarios to discredit his observations. Obviously, every candidate is unique and everybody's situation is a little different...but man are some of you getting rubbed the wrong way by this guy's assertions.

 

[rctaber]

Thus, I am interpreting his definition of "equal" qualifications as meaning both candidates had the exact same schooling, work history, etc...and the only variable for a selection panel to differentiate a candidate would be the AT-SAT.

Now, practically speaking this will never happen...but I think you guys are using an awful lot of energy trying to "prove" how he's wrong in what he's saying by coming up with scenarios to discredit his observations. Obviously, every candidate is unique and everybody's situation is a little different...but man are some of you getting rubbed the wrong way by this guy's assertions.

This is what I was trying to say. I am not saying i deserve to get in with a lower score because i went to a better school, i am saying there are multiple variables at play here and it doesn't just come down to the score.