Polar742
All the responsibility none of the authority
You can explain more about ASM's if you want, I understand your side of the argument but I don't agree with it.
ATA discontinues all operations
- Thread starter Seggy
- Start date
staplegun
Well-Known Member
But GM makes $60k off of those 6 units of work on the Hummer ($10k per car) vs. $12k off of the Cobalt ($2k per car).
Same job, but they make more money, so again why would the workers making Hummers not get paid more?
You said it yourself. It's the same job.
You can explain more about ASM's if you want, I understand your side of the argument but I don't agree with it
Because the workers are being paid for their work, i.e. physically installing the doors, not for pricing or selling the finished product.
Just as airline pilots are paid for producing ASM's, i.e. flying X amount of seats safely and efficiently between IND-MCO, not for pricing or selling the airline tickets which fill those seats.
If GM produces those cars but never sells them, the workers still get paid, just as an airline pilot gets his/her hourly rate between IND-MCO regardless of whether one or 300 seats are filled...
Kevin
wheelsup
Well-Known Member
Do dispatchers get paid more for dispatching bigger aircraft? After all they are producing more revenue for the company when dispatching a 747 vs. a 737.
Personally I think UPS pilots have the right mindset - flying a plane is flying a plane. One pay rate for their fleet. Obviously ya'll don't feel that way, which is fine, I won't ever agree with your argument. I wouldn't say I'm a "troll" just because I don't agree, that seems pretty petty.
Personally I think UPS pilots have the right mindset - flying a plane is flying a plane. One pay rate for their fleet. Obviously ya'll don't feel that way, which is fine, I won't ever agree with your argument. I wouldn't say I'm a "troll" just because I don't agree, that seems pretty petty.
Polar742
All the responsibility none of the authority
Polar742
All the responsibility none of the authority
That is not a true statement. They are flight planning a flight. If the flight goes from IND-MCO, the exact same physical work is done whether they dispatch a PA28 or a 747.
Now, if you had said if dispatchers make more dispatching an international operation under Flag rules, vs a domestic operation, then there is an argument. An international flight under Flag is a far, far more complex set of variables than a domestic flight. Or even a regionalized (the "real" regional, not the marketing ploy) airline such as Gulfstream that only flies in the Florida and the Bahamas, vs an operator like Southwest that has more variables, then yes, there is more work.
wheelsup
Well-Known Member
A pilot flying a 737 does the same physical work as one flying a 747. In fact, the guy flying the 737 probably does a lot more work
!So is this about doing work, or revenue generated? Your argument is that a pilot in a 747 generates more revenue so therefore should be paid more. But when it comes to dispatching that doesn't seem to be the case. In your opinion, why are pilots special?
staplegun
Well-Known Member
A pilot flying a 737 does the same physical work as one flying a 747. In fact, the guy flying the 737 probably does a lot more work
So is this about doing work, or revenue generated? Your argument is that a pilot in a 747 generates more revenue so therefore should be paid more. But when it comes to dispatching that doesn't seem to be the case. In your opinion, why are pilots special?
No!
The argument is that a 747 pilot produces more ASM's than a 737 pilot, not that s/he works harder or produces more revenue.
The "physical work" of piloting the two planes is similar enough so as to be virtually indistinguishable.
The revenue raised by the ASM's produced by the pilot is the responsibility of the company, and is irrelevant to this discussion...
Kevin
Polar742
All the responsibility none of the authority
A pilot flying a 737 does the same physical work as one flying a 747. In fact, the guy flying the 737 probably does a lot more work
So is this about doing work, or revenue generated? Your argument is that a pilot in a 747 generates more revenue so therefore should be paid more. But when it comes to dispatching that doesn't seem to be the case. In your opinion, why are pilots special?
"Why are pilots special?".
Here's the secret. We're not. We are frontline employees. We just go to work, push the button on the machine, and churn out widgets. ASMs are our widget. The only limitation on the number of widgets a pilot can make is based solely on how big Boeing and Airbus want to build planes.
Use your dispatch example. A dispatcher planning a domestic flight can do, say 10 flights an hour. A dispatcher planning an international flight can only do 4 flights an hour. Your metric is completely irrelevant. Dispatchers are very important to our business, but they do not produce inventory.
For example, the FAA limits a Flight Attendent to 50 people. For every 50 people, you need 1 FA on board. If you have a 200 seat airplane you MUST have 4 flight attendants.
If I fly a 50 seat jet, we need 2 pilots. If I fly a 747-400 with 500 seats we still need 2 pilots.
I don't know what your business is, but let's say you're a lawyer. It takes 500 hours to prepare a DUI case. You work 10 hours a day M-F. You can do 4 DUIs a month. What happens when the 5th one shows up?
wheelsup
Well-Known Member
You outsource for a cheaper rate and charge the guy your full price. Or you hire a paralegal to prepare your cases for you. Or you charge more to reduce demand. You have a lot of possibilities. But I know that wasn't what you were looking for
.Like I said before, you can continue to make this argument. I just don't happen to agree. That's all. It's OK. Really.
I wonder what would happen if Delta decided to take out all the coach seats and put in first class seats. Would pay go down because ASM production went down?
Maximilian_Jenius
Super User
...do lawyers really do the work for the case?
A friend of mine is a paralegal, and he says that he and the other paralegals do all the research (grunt work) on case law and such, if not typically alot more.
His explanation made it sound like the lawyer is a 121 pilot. He/she no longer has to do his/her own clearance manually, dispatch, call FSS et al.
He says *basically* the lawyer just shows up (of course he/she has to review what the paralegals research) to court and argue.
And of course the lawyers have to be very firmilar with case law and precidents.
Dunno, that's what I've been told!
SIUav8er
Narcosis
Maximilian_Jenius
Super User
So uh, did you hear ATA went under this week?
Seriously, seriously you are asking me this, in this thread???
Maximilian_Jenius
Super User
Hahahaha...
I'm gon' guess that you haven't read this entire thread, or, well you'd know better...
Or, at least I'd hope so...
Maximilian_Jenius
Super User
***Update***
I had lunch with my friends today.
ATA F/A's are AFA.
Apparently, at least here in the former PHX base they have had two very informal meetings at peoples houses and US Airway's hiring reps have shown up in force.
Word is that US Airways which isn't hiring FA's currently is looking very hard to give preferential hiring to ATA f/a's.
I was told that they (ATA f/a's) here in PHX have a formal meeting Monday night and Airways will again be out in force.
So, it sounds like my friend and others like him may soon be employed again!
Just wanted to let ya'll know!
***update***
I had lunch with my friends today.
ATA F/A's are AFA.
Apparently, at least here in the former PHX base they have had two very informal meetings at peoples houses and US Airway's hiring reps have shown up in force.
Word is that US Airways which isn't hiring FA's currently is looking very hard to give preferential hiring to ATA f/a's.
I was told that they (ATA f/a's) here in PHX have a formal meeting Monday night and Airways will again be out in force.
So, it sounds like my friend and others like him may soon be employed again!
Just wanted to let ya'll know!
***update***
Maximilian_Jenius
Super User
He was seriously looking at Delta (still is), but says if Airways will employ him and he doesn't have to commute, it's a done deal!
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
Well, I just hope the whole east uSAPa movement doesn't drive US Airways straight into the ground in the long run.
One hell of a mess that place will end up over the next few years.
Maximilian_Jenius
Super User
Lol, of course you're right, but let me go and get IanJ, I think he has something award you, again...
Twice in one night, damn boy!
Flyin_bryan
New Member
Q: What does the airport do with the bankrupt planes at the gates?
A: they tow them out to the edge of the airport and park them!
I was driving by sky harbor and saw a couple ATA planes parked there by their lonesome...
A: they tow them out to the edge of the airport and park them!
I was driving by sky harbor and saw a couple ATA planes parked there by their lonesome...