Diamond D-Jets...
- Thread starter Fly Boi
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The Gardener
Terrafirma Phobic
The D Jet isn't due to deliver until next year. slow down there high speed. I have seen a few Eclipses but add me to the list of someone who wants to fly one. they are neat. they have really high hiring requirements though.
Flyin_bryan
New Member
I sat in the mock up D-jet @ oshkosh.
It has pretty nice leather seats!
wayyyy better than a citation mustang....
those citation guys really screwed up with the crappy seats in the mustang... ive seen better seats in a minivan...
but the djet guys have their #### together if their interior is giong to be like the mock up.
bench seat in the back for 3 and two pilot seats up front! who would have thought!! saves a ton of space!
I have grown sceptical of the eclipse 500..... at oshkosh eclipse came out with the 1 engine eclipse.... DOH! they should have done that from the begining!
Djet is going to reign in all the guys getting out of eclipse...
Just take a look at a controller magizine, there are more and more and more eclipse postitions... asking a lower and lower and lower price.
they postponed the public stock offering of POGO the other day, the company that is supposed to be operating half of these eclipse jets....
and an eclipse 500 factory in russia? hope they dont make the planes like they make their cars....
Dont get me wrong, if the opportunity arises to get training in these things I would jump!
They announced they are giong to do training in phoenix for the eclipse jet... however I called the place, and they had no details on the program... I asked them to call me when they do... they still havent called.
it seems to me like eclipse is falling apart.
It has pretty nice leather seats!
wayyyy better than a citation mustang....
those citation guys really screwed up with the crappy seats in the mustang... ive seen better seats in a minivan...
but the djet guys have their #### together if their interior is giong to be like the mock up.
bench seat in the back for 3 and two pilot seats up front! who would have thought!! saves a ton of space!
I have grown sceptical of the eclipse 500..... at oshkosh eclipse came out with the 1 engine eclipse.... DOH! they should have done that from the begining!
Djet is going to reign in all the guys getting out of eclipse...
Just take a look at a controller magizine, there are more and more and more eclipse postitions... asking a lower and lower and lower price.
they postponed the public stock offering of POGO the other day, the company that is supposed to be operating half of these eclipse jets....
and an eclipse 500 factory in russia? hope they dont make the planes like they make their cars....
Dont get me wrong, if the opportunity arises to get training in these things I would jump!
They announced they are giong to do training in phoenix for the eclipse jet... however I called the place, and they had no details on the program... I asked them to call me when they do... they still havent called.
it seems to me like eclipse is falling apart.
bdhill1979
Gone West
Like everything Diamond has produced so far, I believe the D-Jet will disappoint on every level. I will go out on a limb and predict that the actual performance numbers are about 20% less than what is being published (like every other diamond aircraft has ended up being). So that 315 KTAS cruise will more likely be around 252 KTAS.
Just like the Twin Star was supposed to cruise at over 200 knots, just like the Diamond Star was supposed to cruise at 150 knots.
anic:
They announced recently that the original engine will be replaced with a more powerful one. If you read between the BS in the article it is easy to see that they discovered that it was underpowered to begin with; meaning more weight from a bigger engine; meaning less useful load from the weight increase; meaning more fuel burn from a bigger engine; meaning shorter range; Meaning greater cost of purchase; meaning what is the point?
If you can't carry weight (i.e. people and baggage) then why do you need it?
That and with the
"Stellar" maintenance record diamond has how much will that pointless little jet cost to own and operate?
For that money I would rather have a brand new Beech Baron
Slightly slower, but carries way more payload, almost equal range, and is a known quantity, rather than some new flashy aircraft that has not been out in the real world.
Just like the Twin Star was supposed to cruise at over 200 knots, just like the Diamond Star was supposed to cruise at 150 knots.
anic:They announced recently that the original engine will be replaced with a more powerful one. If you read between the BS in the article it is easy to see that they discovered that it was underpowered to begin with; meaning more weight from a bigger engine; meaning less useful load from the weight increase; meaning more fuel burn from a bigger engine; meaning shorter range; Meaning greater cost of purchase; meaning what is the point?
If you can't carry weight (i.e. people and baggage) then why do you need it?
That and with the
"Stellar" maintenance record diamond has how much will that pointless little jet cost to own and operate?For that money I would rather have a brand new Beech Baron
Slightly slower, but carries way more payload, almost equal range, and is a known quantity, rather than some new flashy aircraft that has not been out in the real world.
The Gardener
Terrafirma Phobic
are there any manufactures that don't over promise and under deliver? It is sorta expected! I am inpressed with Diamonds speed and efficiency that they are able to design, produce and certify a product. And any twin that can cruise at 150 knots on 12 gph is good to me!
BajtheJino
I'm looking at you.
And at $550,000-what a bargain!
bdhill1979
Gone West
That "speed and efficiency" is due to certifications in other countries that due to ICAO agreements the US accepts.
Just means that products are being brought to market en mass without being thoroughly tested.
This could explain:
the roughly dozen or so electrical failures I have had in diamonds in the last year.
The aneroid fuel pumps that have been responsible for a few crashes; witness to one of those.
The 1.7 Liter engines on the twin star
(Side note: did you know they actually tried to say that the problems with those was due to student pilots shock cooling the engines. How, exactly, do you shock cool a liquid cooled engine?)
But since it takes that much longer to get where you are going are you actually gaining any efficiency? My T210 burns about 16 GPH, but goes 60 Knots faster, and only has one engine to maintain; and carries a much better load, and cost a fifth as much to buy.
Sir you are way out of line.
The delivery price is now almost $700,000
alloyicon
Well-Known Member
If I'm not mistaken, Diamonds have been considered all all electric airplanes for quite some time now. Many Diamonds have had electric avionics/flight instruments for several years prior to their now popular G-1000 setup.
I started my flight training in a Diamond DA-20-A1 Katana (had to finish in a C-152 as the Katana had some engine related issues) My brother did all of his IRF training in a Diamond DA-40 and I don't recall him saying anything negative about the DA-40.
I can't say much about the Diamond DA-42 TwinStar as I have never flown one.
Can you elaborate on the electrical issues/failures you have experienced in the DA-42?
Did you continue on the backup battery or did you immediately abort the flight?
Flyin_bryan
New Member
your T210 does not get 210kts and 16gph.
if it does, i would like to know which modification that is.
try about 165kts true and 18gph 70% power ROP.
I absolutely agree about the value aspect a 30 yr old T210 vs da42...ect.
-but how about the piece of mind knowing you have two engines.
-what about having two alternators?
-what about the impact of your passengers seeing the airplane has only "one" engine.
-you wont get any multi time flying your 210.
-if you keep telling your guys about the efficiency of a 210, they are never going to buy you a twin to fly around....
-the climb performance of your bogged down 210 is going to be a whole lot less than a twin loaded to its max.
-they cant make 210's anymore because of the single spar wing... safety factor?
-twin can climb a helluva lot faster, get to cruise alt, reduce fuel flows and catch tailwind for longer duration,
-twin can climb out of terrain and turbulence faster
I believe the question is how much do you value these things vs. how much do you not value these things.
it is a half a million dollar question.
The Gardener
Terrafirma Phobic
And compared to other light twins manufactured these days that can be reasonably used for multi training?
Some good friends of mine are the regional diamond training instructors and they are having great luck with them.
Some good friends of mine are the regional diamond training instructors and they are having great luck with them.
bdhill1979
Gone West
Im not aware of any that were "all electric" until the G1000 came along
Not just the DA42, but all diamonds I have flown:
Circuit breakers popping for no good reason, reset and its like nothing happened.
Alternators failing: One DA 40 ate 5 of them in one week last summer.
lights not working
electric fuel pumps, primarily the aux tank pumps on the 42 not working
One DA20 burned over a dozen oil temperature sending units last summer
Electrical trim failures
then of course a few times when everything goes out; and hooray for magnetos and mechanical pumps.
bdhill1979
Gone West
Yes it does
I can't list them all off the top of my head, but a few are:
Brand new set of performance cylinders
Knisely Exhaust system
We had the ignition system done (don't know the name of it)
Flap gap seals
It has to get up to altitude to do that, sure, but at cruise if it is not fully loaded it will do that easily. With a load I usually plan for and get around 190 KTAS. The most I have ever burned was 20 gallons per hour and that was right after the cylinder job and them mechanic wanted it run really rich for the first 25 hours.
With the number of engine problems I have seen from the Twin Star, I will keep the single. One instructor that I work with has had three inflight failures in 300 hours in type. About half a dozen others have had problems requiring them to declare emergencies.
Don't care
Again, don't care, but he is probably buying a Baron this summer; not sure why, but he wants one. Probably because his buddy has one.
Have you ever flown a twin star at max gross weight, on a hot summer day, in mountainous terrain?????
It doesn't climb any better than a high performance single. The engines are really underpowered for that sort of thing. Now they are installing the 2.0 liter engines and there is a bit of improvement in those, but too early to tell if it is going to fix all the major issues the twin star has had.
Its a flashy, sleek looking airplane, that I think has great potential as a design, but it promises a lot of things that it simply can't deliver and costs a whole hell of a lot more to operate than people were led to believe.
The mechanic joked to me that if he could get three or four people to buy one he would be set for life. He wasn't kidding though.
Berkut
Well-Known Member
MTSU bought nine DA-40s in 2003 that were all-electric. No G1000s in theirs at the time.
jettison IT
New Member
How bout that Honda jet ? Now thats what I'm talkin bout. Only 4 or 5 million and its tour to travel the world.
bdhill1979
Gone West
How am I mistaken???
I was not aware of any.
I have never touched a non-G1000 da40, and thus had no idea they made any that were all electric previous to those.
TexasFlyer
Living the Dream (well at least trying to)
:yeahthat:
I never had any issues with the DA20's.
I had a 50% down time on scheduling DA40s with G1000's due to them being in unscheduled maintenance more often than not! It was a major delay to my instrument training.
I now fly the DA42. With only 3 hours in type so far (2 flights) , nothing broke yet. But I have heard everything from trim failures, fuel pump on the aux tanks not working so just keep those tanks empty, alternator failures, burning oil, eating radiator fluid, etc.
I love flying the Diamond Aircraft and find them much nicer than most of the newer aircraft on the market, but I do question the reliability of any Diamond aircraft equipped with the G1000.
Flyin_bryan
New Member
I have a real hard time believing this. EVERY T210 I have flown gets 165kts true at 18gph 70% power ROP @ 12k. I think you are goofing up a number here.
Flap gap seals do not have that much of a performance gain.
and contrary to being lightweight, it is an aft CG that makes an airplane go faster.... and you have to load up that airplane to get the cg to move rear.
and at ALTITUDE if you are referring to 20k... the cruise is gonig to be around 175kts true.... just under 18gph
So cmon man, check your numbers. I have digital fuel flows and engine analyzers in these planes, gps, these are the performance numbers.
if your running 16gph your going to need a new set of those cylendars every 200 hrs....
and your not getting even 190kts true ever. unless your in a decent.
stop exagerating.... you know you are
and dude, I fly columbia 400's around, they get 190-210kts true and 17 gph LOP. there is no way you are getting those numbers with a 210. DUDE THERE IS NO WAY!
No experience with the /r model 210's. I'll give you 185kts true MAX if you are flying around that model.
the only way is to have your speed is with a p210 with a riley rocket conversion in the FL's.
I never said anything about twinstars. I said twins. The twinstar is ###### dude, it appears like all of your multi time is in ###### twin stars. Did you know there are other twins out there? Twins that climb out faster than singles! who woulda thought, probably cause they have more thrust to weight or somthing....
you'll care about multi time if you ever want to move up in the world.
man it seems kinda arrogant of you for not valuing multi time... "don't care....the boss is getting a barron...." there are guys that would give their left balls to get multi time like that!
just some thoughts.
alloyicon
Well-Known Member
I was on the Diamond website last night and under the "eNEWSLETTER" link, you can view the "Diamond Flyer" and "D-Jet Flyer" newsletters. (current and back issues)
One of the D-Jet Flyer's had some good technical info on why they chose to place the turbine engine where they did and also why they used the "S" type intake ducting system.
Here is the PDF link to Issue #2 of the D-Jet Flyer which has the engine placement info.
http://www.diamondair.com/enewsletter/djet/2007_09_25/djet_flyer.pdf
One of the D-Jet Flyer's had some good technical info on why they chose to place the turbine engine where they did and also why they used the "S" type intake ducting system.
Here is the PDF link to Issue #2 of the D-Jet Flyer which has the engine placement info.
http://www.diamondair.com/enewsletter/djet/2007_09_25/djet_flyer.pdf
CK
Well-Known Member
I fly a T210R that is a good 185kts at 10k and about 20gph. I have never taken it up high, but the other pilot claims it is a 200kt plane in the flight levels (I think the POH claims 210kts). 165kts seems really slow, but the L and N models may not be as fast at the R.
Alex.