USAPA

PCL_128 said:
Both.
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meritflyer said:
You just made a total fool of yourself. I would've probably left the whole "student at ATP thing" unsaid. You're out of your element here.
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How exactly have I made myself to be a fool? He asked me what I was doing, and I am not going to lie and pretend, or lead people to believe that I am a US pilot. And how exactly am I out of my element here? Is this all a secret society that I have secretly gained access to? Just because I find no fault in a group of pilots trying to salvage their careers makes me out of my element? Sure I have no airline experience, but that doesn't prevent me in making a moral judgement/opinion on the matter. I honestly believe that Velo and PCL_128 are being inhumane when they expect a group of pilots to, quite frankly, waste their careers and their lives. Others may disagree with me, and that's fine, but I cannot for the life of me see how this puts them into the same category as scabs, skybus, etc.

But take it for a grain of salt, I only fly seminoles.

PCL_128 said:
It has nothing to do with how big the airplane is that he flies. It has to do with the fact that he hasn't even gotten to the point of flying for a living yet. He's still getting his danged ratings. Maybe, just maybe, he should focus on that VMC demo instead of telling a bunch of air line pilots about unions.



Actually, that's exactly what it means.
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I am not telling you about unions sir. You have your opinions, I have mine. I'm not, nor do I want to, trying to change your opinion.

However, for what's it worth, I do consider myself knowledgeable in this matter, and I do hold a strong opinion about it.

PCL_128 said:
All ALPA reps are bound by their oath of office to support the Association. If these reps are uSAPa supporters, and they don't feel that they can do as their oath requires of them, then they need to resign their positions. If they refuse to do so, then they are in violation of their oath and the Association has no choice under the law but to follow their own Bylaws and place the council in trusteeship. To do otherwise would be blatantly illegal, and would open the Association up to litigation.

And I'm well aware that a large majority of Council 41 (and all other AAA) pilots supports uSAPa. The position of an elected rep is sometimes a very difficult one. In this case, the rep has to make a decision: support the majority opinion even if the majority opinion is fueled by emotion and ignorance rather than facts and pragmatism, or do the right thing and do what is best for your members. The uSAPa supporters may be the majority at AAA, but uSAPa is most certainly not was is best for them. As a rep, I would do what I know to be best for my membership.
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Well, perhaps Bush knows what's best for America. So why are people so hard on him? How come you are not supporting him?

surreal1221 said:
Well gents, for my part in this thread. . .

My questions to flywithUS was not a bait
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Well my friend, I apologize then. I saw it differently, and I just assumed that was your goal.
 
BobDDuck said:
I agree with everything you said up until there. But I can't go with that.

A rep is elected to represent their pilots. That's it. They are not elected to make policy for their pilots.
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ALPA operates as a representative democracy. That means that you elect people that you trust to do the right thing. It is not direct democracy. The members don't rule every decision. They don't always have the information necessary to make the right decision, they don't know the players, they don't have the experience, etc... Just as your Congressman isn't honor-bound to vote as the majority of his constituents want, an ALPA rep is under no obligation to vote as the majority of his members want. In fact, the Admin Manual is very clear that the membership is unable to mandate any rep.
 
flywithUS said:
However, for what's it worth, I do consider myself knowledgeable in this matter
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It's not worth much. What experience do you have with these issues? You've obviously never been an air line pilot or a union member, so what other experience do you have to qualify you to be knowledgeable on these matters?
 
PCL_128 said:
It's not worth much. What experience do you have with these issues? You've obviously never been an air line pilot or a union member, so what other experience do you have to qualify you to be knowledgeable on these matters?
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I'm betting he reads a lot about the issues. Works for me. :D




Side bet - his dad flies for USA.

Either way it sounds to me like he has a fair amount of knowledge about the issue. YMMV.
 
Something about uniting the 121 pax professional pilots.

Stay organized. We start to allow little cracks in our organization and it won't turn out well.

I also hope that ALPA will deny any assisted services to USAPA if they do crack off.

Screw em.
 
surreal1221 said:
I also hope that ALPA will deny any assisted services to USAPA if they do crack off.

Screw em.
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Aeromedical has already gone on the record as saying they will provide no services to uSAPa. I think the rest of the organization will follow. uSAPa will be on their own, with 40% of the pilot group not joining and not paying dues. They'll collapse under their own weight.
 
Snuggle said:
That's true and it's sad that if you have a different opinion you will get attacked for it.
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It's not an attack. You simply shouldn't be debating topics that you have no experience in. Why is this a difficult concept to understand? I'm not going to walk into the nearest FBO and start debating a bunch of NetJets pilots about their union, because I don't have any experience in their segment of aviation.
 
PCL_128 said:
Aeromedical has already gone on the record as saying they will provide no services to uSAPa. I think the rest of the organization will follow. uSAPa will be on their own, with 40% of the pilot group not joining and not paying dues. They'll collapse under their own weight.
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That's very good news to hear.

You flying at all next week?
 
Here's what I think Mike is saying...

flyWithUs has an opposing view point to PCL's thoughts, and hence, according to PCL isn't qualified to talk about this stuff.

Surreal has a similar viewpoint as PCL and PCL hasn't said anything about him not being qualified despite he is mostly in the same boat as flyWithUs.

What ever. I'm going to just agree to disagree and hope like hell the PCL is never my rep anywhere.
 
And what I was saying Ethan was said slightly in jest.

Considering PCL said something about "debating" with other people, and mike said what he said. . .

symantics.

I'm also not a student at ATP ;)

Furthermore, I haven't commented on the whole USAPA fiasco. My only comments have been questions posed to uflywithUS, and requesting information in regards to what services (if any) ALPA would provide to the new "association."

I know i'm not qualified to make a decision on the whole USAPA fiasco, so I'm keeping my mouth shut. But as an ALPA member, I do care what MY union does with MY dues (granted I'm still a probie. . .but I'd gladly pay dues right now, even on my $300 a week). I think the question I asked is one which a lot of ALPA members are asking and thinking about. So I asked it.
 
mikecweb said:
Only if they disagree with you though.
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Not true. But, as Surreal pointed out, I'm not exactly going to start debating someone that is agreeing with me. The idea is the same, however: you shouldn't be debating topics that you have no experience in. You'll never see me debating the Train on philosophy, because he's trained in it and I'm not. Pretty simple.
 
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