SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
Both.
USAPA
- Thread starter scflyin
- Start date
Both.
SkiHigh2002
New Member
Interesting thread, guys. I logged on this morning after receiving this really odd email from ALPA about the LEC going into trusteeship.
Thanks for the education, I had no idea this was even an issue (shows my ignorance, I guess).
Thanks for the education, I had no idea this was even an issue (shows my ignorance, I guess).
meritflyer
Well-Known Member
You just made a total fool of yourself. I would've probably left the whole "student at ATP thing" unsaid. You're out of your element here.
CamYZ125
Well-Known Member
Well this has certainly turned into a giant pissing match. I'll take flywithUS's side; you guys think that just because you're real airline pilots that fly bigger planes than him, you automatically have the knowledge and therefore are entitled to an opinion at what is going on at an airline that you don't even work for? Ok, you're going to say "but this involves ALPA, and we belong to ALPA". Maybe true, but do you even pay dues yet Merit? Wasn't that long ago that you were just flying around with two props attached to your plane; do you think you weren't entitled to your opinion then, but you are now? Doubt it.
Just because he's not an airline pilot doesn't mean he's not just as knowledgeable when it comes to a subject as you 'big boys' are.
And Ian, where's your 'new user profile format'??
Just because he's not an airline pilot doesn't mean he's not just as knowledgeable when it comes to a subject as you 'big boys' are.
And Ian, where's your 'new user profile format'??
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
It has nothing to do with how big the airplane is that he flies. It has to do with the fact that he hasn't even gotten to the point of flying for a living yet. He's still getting his danged ratings. Maybe, just maybe, he should focus on that VMC demo instead of telling a bunch of air line pilots about unions.
Actually, that's exactly what it means.
CamYZ125
Well-Known Member
Maybe, just maybe, he has more experience or knowledge on the subject than half of the airline pilots do.
That's all I'm saying; you don't have to do a certain job to have a vast amount of knowledge or experience on a subject.
I don't really care, just thought you guys were taking things a bit hard with the guy..
Really guys, take a chill pill. If you want to discount someone's opinion because of their *status* in the industry, that's your decision, but at least do it with some professionalism and class. Feel free to express your opposing viewpoints, but let's do it without bashing, OK?
Personally I wouldn't throw someone's opinion out solely because of what they haven't yet achieved or experienced. Their experience level will play into how much weight I give their ideas, but it sure wouldn't be the only factor. Sometimes I think you guys dismiss people too quickly.
Click the user name, then "view public profile." It's an all new format. Not a format for a "new user." I think you might have misunderstood me.
And for my last pitch in favor of people filling out their profiles - what Steve said.
It's not about dismissing people, or making fun of people. It's about knowing who you are talking to.
You guys aren't asking flywithUS the right questions, by the way. There must be some reason he has an opinion about this stuff... come on - get to know your fellow man! Isn't anyone who is interested in this subject matter at all curious why he believes what he believes?
SoCalAprch
Well-Known Member
If somebody that does know whats going on give me a brief overview of why the east pilots want this and the west does not? I don't even know if that is 100% correct but for some reason I think that this whole USAPA drive is going to drive a stake between the two pilot groups. They think this is good? But please correct me if I am wrong.
blee256
Well-Known Member
I agree with Cam and side with FlywithUS.
You need to get off your high horse. He is just expressing his opinion. He probably knows more about it than I do, and I've been an ALPA pilot for a few years. But somehow my post means more than his? Why its not even my airline. To simply say he isnt worth your time because he isnt an airline pilot is an arrogance thats not needed on this board.
Its a public board, and I think most like the anonymity(sp?) of it. There have been posts on this board about "Who do you work for" the reponses are terrible, so I doubt updating user CP function will have much participation. I dont think people should put much weight in anyones screenname. Capt. bob caught some flak a couple years ago because it was Capt. Bob when he was just an F/O. I have seen CaptMatt, Captchris, on this board, and they were just students. So I think maybe too much emphasis is put on ones name, but its the fault of the reader. Not the one who chose that name.
You need to get off your high horse. He is just expressing his opinion. He probably knows more about it than I do, and I've been an ALPA pilot for a few years. But somehow my post means more than his? Why its not even my airline. To simply say he isnt worth your time because he isnt an airline pilot is an arrogance thats not needed on this board.
Its a public board, and I think most like the anonymity(sp?) of it. There have been posts on this board about "Who do you work for" the reponses are terrible, so I doubt updating user CP function will have much participation. I dont think people should put much weight in anyones screenname. Capt. bob caught some flak a couple years ago because it was Capt. Bob when he was just an F/O. I have seen CaptMatt, Captchris, on this board, and they were just students. So I think maybe too much emphasis is put on ones name, but its the fault of the reader. Not the one who chose that name.
mikecweb
Well-Known Member
You jump on this chap about his opinions because of lack of experience. OldTownPilot is one of the most respected users on this website yet he is just as inexperienced....oh but he's pro-ALPA so his opinion counts.
Telling someone they might see it different once they reach the next level is fine. Telling someone to keep their mouth shut until they wear some stripes at an airline is ridiculous.
Telling someone they might see it different once they reach the next level is fine. Telling someone to keep their mouth shut until they wear some stripes at an airline is ridiculous.
BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
This is what I don't get about you. You bitch and moan about people who DON'T KNOW what is going on giving their opinion and then you say something like this. Do you have any idea what percentage of the pilots who make up Council 41 are for USAPA? I didn't think so. It might surprise you to learn that PHL has MUCH more then a majority of support for USAPA. So then comes the question, what are the local reps supposed to do? Do they support their pilots (who they were elected to support) or do they support the organization that causes them to exist?
Personally, I'm not too sad to see those guys go. They were as corrupt as anybody and on top of that haven't done my current airline any favors in the past. But still, you go call them out for not doing their job and yet have no idea what their constituents want. And you don't even have any Vmc demos you are supposed to be learning instead.
SlumTodd_Millionaire
Most Hated Member
All ALPA reps are bound by their oath of office to support the Association. If these reps are uSAPa supporters, and they don't feel that they can do as their oath requires of them, then they need to resign their positions. If they refuse to do so, then they are in violation of their oath and the Association has no choice under the law but to follow their own Bylaws and place the council in trusteeship. To do otherwise would be blatantly illegal, and would open the Association up to litigation.
And I'm well aware that a large majority of Council 41 (and all other AAA) pilots supports uSAPa. The position of an elected rep is sometimes a very difficult one. In this case, the rep has to make a decision: support the majority opinion even if the majority opinion is fueled by emotion and ignorance rather than facts and pragmatism, or do the right thing and do what is best for your members. The uSAPa supporters may be the majority at AAA, but uSAPa is most certainly not was is best for them. As a rep, I would do what I know to be best for my membership.
BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
I agree with everything you said up until there. But I can't go with that.
A rep is elected to represent their pilots. That's it. They are not elected to make policy for their pilots. If all the pilots in Council 41 support USAPA, then their reps should support USAPA. If that is in conflict with ALPA policy (which it is) then the council should go into trusteeship (which it did).
This is the problem with ALPA. They THINK they know what is best for everybody. I'm willing to say they DO know what is best for the industry, but regrettable what is best for the industry is NOT good for everybody.
Locally we've had problems with reps not representing their pilots and basing their votes off their own personal feelings. That's fine, they were elected into that position, but it them becomes incumbent on the pilot group to remove them from power and place somebody who either agree with the pilots or is willing to vote what the group wants, even if it's not what they want.
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
Well gents, for my part in this thread. . .
My questions to flywithUS was not a bait, but rather for me to refresh some earlier memories of flywithUS to make sure he was the same individual who was extremely pro-US Airways hostile takeover attempt of Delta.
I didn't ask then, because I didn't really care. . .what his background was. Now though, after continued US Airways cheerleading of USAPA, I wanted to know what his background was.
I don't, and will never, see it as a question that should not be asked of our members if they are participating in a portion of the forum, be it the airline pilot, freight, or CFI areas.
Not to side step it any further, but I think a great majority of JC's members who have spent some time here developing future aviators, providing insight, have a very important role to play in pointing out or asking people about their backgrounds in the hopes that the individuals providing input are able to be gauged properly by viewers.
It shouldn't become the experience police, as that certainly isn't required. I'm not judging flywithUS's experience, just his background. Some others might, and if they do. . .so be it, I think it is warranted in some situations and not in some. In this case, I do think it is warranted.
My questions to flywithUS was not a bait, but rather for me to refresh some earlier memories of flywithUS to make sure he was the same individual who was extremely pro-US Airways hostile takeover attempt of Delta.
I didn't ask then, because I didn't really care. . .what his background was. Now though, after continued US Airways cheerleading of USAPA, I wanted to know what his background was.
I don't, and will never, see it as a question that should not be asked of our members if they are participating in a portion of the forum, be it the airline pilot, freight, or CFI areas.
Not to side step it any further, but I think a great majority of JC's members who have spent some time here developing future aviators, providing insight, have a very important role to play in pointing out or asking people about their backgrounds in the hopes that the individuals providing input are able to be gauged properly by viewers.
It shouldn't become the experience police, as that certainly isn't required. I'm not judging flywithUS's experience, just his background. Some others might, and if they do. . .so be it, I think it is warranted in some situations and not in some. In this case, I do think it is warranted.
Velocipede
New Member
Then you recall your MEC reps. Because the ship has sailed on SLI, my friend. Of course, you won't recall those traitors, because they're currently shilling for uSAPsa.
And that's why Council 41 is in trusteeship today.
Those guys shot themselves (and, by extension, YOU) in the foot. But, LOOK! You've got another foot.
Ready, aim...
Velocipede
New Member
:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:
Velocipede
New Member
Wrong, Bob. If the leadership can't support ALPA they are honor bound to resign. They didn't. They elected to use ALPA resources to support uSAPa.
That is unethical, as is most of the positions uSAPa takes.
BobDDuck
Island Bus Driver
Apparently your reading comprehension isn't up tonight... That's exactly what I wrote.
What I was saying is I don't want my reps to decide what is right for me. If I think that something (say age 65) is bad, I don't want my reps saying it's good, and they know what is best for me and voting on it anyways.
Right now, we are locked up in a MEC Chair election. The MEC (which has 6 voting members, 2 reps each from 3 LECs) is split 3-3 on who the next chairman will be. There are two options. The current MEC Chair is running again and the former MEC Chair is also running again. Both reps from my Local are supporting the current chair (which is what me, and 99% of the pilots in domicile want). On LEC is supporting the old MEC Chair (he's based out of that domicile, and I have no idea what those pilots want) and our biggest Domicile LEC is split. The FO rep is voting for the current Chair and the CA rep is voting for the old Chair. The problem is, WAY more then a majority of the CAs in this domicile want the current MEC Chair to stay in power. In fact, many of these captains were directly screwed over by the past MEC Chair. There is NO WAY they want to see him back. But this LEC CA Rep says he knows what is best for the group, even though the majority of the pilots he represents think otherwise.
That's what I don't think is right.