Delta's Hiring Freeze and Q4 Loss

Khakis, "Duck Head" polos, brown loafers and "sweet-ta r'unsweet?" :)
 
Doug Taylor said:
Whoah there Nelly. They're actually upping the forecasts for the amount of pilots they're looking to hire and parking 50-seaters.
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Okay, so hiring is expected to be upped, but the future prospect of more 76 seat jets doing longer flights across the country also a bad thing?

More especially since Delta is saying that they want more 76 jets for domestic, won't that equal a harder time to transition from regional puke to legacy God?

Furthermore if something isn't done and done soon, my prediction about all domestic service being contracted out and flown in mainline colors, with only international service done by mainline, will be the reality.
 
Maximillian_Jenius said:
Furthermore if something isn't done and done soon, my prediction about all domestic service being contracted out and flown in mainline colors, with only international service done by mainline, will be the reality.
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Never happen. Mainline pilots are starting to wake up to the reality they've created. The CAL MEC is vowing not to let a single seat go. At AirTran, we just voted down a TA largely in part due to scope issues. At AMR, the APA is demanding a single list. The AWA MEC captured the EMB-190 flying. Things are going in a positive direction on scope. I don't think you'll see any more scope concessions for a while unless another carrier enters bankruptcy protection before we're able to change the bankruptcy laws.
 
PCL_128 said:
Never happen. Mainline pilots are starting to wake up to the reality they've created. The CAL MEC is vowing not to let a single seat go. At AirTran, we just voted down a TA largely in part due to scope issues. At AMR, the APA is demanding a single list. The AWA MEC captured the EMB-190 flying. Things are going in a positive direction on scope. I don't think you'll see any more scope concessions for a while unless another carrier enters bankruptcy protection before we're able to change the bankruptcy laws.
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Still, this can't be good either...

article said:
The reductions in Delta's domestic flying continue a strategy the airline has relied on during much of its turnaround efforts, as the growing competition from discount carriers has made many U.S. routes unprofitable for big network carriers.

Bastian said Delta will continue growing its more profitable overseas flying next year, where it is better able to pass higher fuel costs on to customers.
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First it was 50 seat jets that were all the rave, then 50 seat not good, 70 seats are the ####. Now 70 seat not good and 76 seats are the new hotness, and in some rare cases 86 seats.

So, it's not inconceivable that 90-100 seat feed is out of the question of being asked for my mainline management. Might not be ratified, or if might, but it's not out of the question being asked for in 2-3 years.

And they already have planes for that niche too E190 & CRJ-1000!

I'm just stating we need be ever so vigilant.
 
PCL_128 said:
You give them even more leeway that I would. As far as I'm concerned, if it has jet engines hanging on it, then mainline pilots should be flying it, whether it's 35 seats or 999 seats.
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Exactly what I think. I was talking with a Delta captain last night on my commute home and he simply couldn't understand how or why my company was flying for Continental, Delta and doing our own stuff. I think he thought we were just doing Delta stuff and possibly branded, but didn't realize that 75% of our flying is under the CoEx banner. He's a west coast guy, so he doesn't run into us often, and when he does it's under the Delta colours.
 
777forever said:
Have you seen the cost of fuel recently? Its a fact, 50 seat RJs are going bye-bye. Next gen turboprops or 70 seat jets are the future.
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Eh, not necessarily. There are far too many 50 seat jets flying. Delta, Air Midwest, and Continental all sought CPA's for 50 seat jets over the last 12 months. They're here to stay.

Like someone mentioned, first the hype was for 50 seats, then 70, then 90, now 100 with the CR1000. I agree with Velo 99.9% with Velo. The difference being, I think anything over 50 seats should be mainline.

I applaud all the guys like AirTran, Continental, and American (to name a few) that have said "HELL NO!" to doing away with the 50 seat clause. Regionals have muffed up mainline flying so bad IMO, it's a joke.

The 50 seat jet may be somewhat out of production for the time being but wont go away by any means. Every carrier using regional feed depends on them. If the route is too large for a 50 seater, it should have a 737-5, ERJ-170/90, or CR7/9 flown by a mainline guy not a regional puke.

I hope the union is prepared to fight tooth and nail to keep mainline pilots flying 70-500 seats.
 
CFIse said:
You don't reduce capacity by increasing the number of seats you're flying. You must understand that these are things airline executives believe:
- people want jets
- frequency of service is everything

So in a world where capacity at mainline out of the hubs is being constrained and given that you don't want to reduce the frequency of service the 50 seat jet is about to return with a vengance. This rush to 70 seat jets make sense when the industry is in an upswing, but when it downturns, as it looks like it might be about to, the 70 seat jet won't make any more sense than running a 757 where you used to run a 737.

"Next gen turboprops" are fine, assuming we can keep the nose gear from collapsing, which seems to be an unfortunate problem, but cities that have had "jet" service will not stand for prop service - look what happened in New York when Delta started running Dashs up there.

So what happens. The 50 seat jets stay running around to the small markets. The 70 seat jets start picking up markets that used to be mainline and the turboprops get slotted in where they can, but they're not making wholesale swaps for jets. Driving down the number of mainline jobs and driving up the number of piss poor paying regional jobs. Like it or not, that's where the market is going.
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From my quick scan, I'd say you're pretty darn correct.
 
The whole regional mania came into effect because the big wigs in management believe that their most valuable customer, the business traveler, wants more frequency. Thing is what management should know is that while the business traveler wants more frequency, they don't want to pay for it.:)
 
article said:
The reductions in Delta's domestic flying continue a strategy the airline has relied on during much of its turnaround efforts, as the growing competition from discount carriers has made many U.S. routes unprofitable for big network carriers.

Bastian said Delta will continue growing its more profitable overseas flying next year, where it is better able to pass higher fuel costs on to customers.
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Markus, almost forgot, that right there means that the rumots of ASA getting 900's is true!
 
Maximillian_Jenius said:
Markus, almost forgot, that right there means that the rumots of ASA getting 900's is true!
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ASA is definitely getting 900s. Its a matter of how soon and from whom. When its all said and done in a couple years I think the majority of the fleet will be 700s and 900s.
 
777forever said:
The whole regional mania came into effect because the big wigs in management believe that their most valuable customer, the business traveler, wants more frequency. Thing is what management should know is that while the business traveler wants more frequency, they don't want to pay for it.:)
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The more frequency thing goes completely out the window when you have 2+ hour flow delays into LGA, ATL, PHL, JFK, EWR, ORD on pretty daily bases. Do they need 7 or 8 daily flights from LGA to MHT?

There will be a point when they come to understand this. I think they are already with some of the USAIRWAYS stuff out of LGA.
 
777forever said:
ASA is definitely getting 900s. Its a matter of how soon and from whom. When its all said and done in a couple years I think the majority of the fleet will be 700s and 900s.
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Bombardier, Delta has a sweetheart deal with them.

Shuttle America is already trading in their 170's for 175's to start being delivered next year.
 
Maximillian_Jenius said:
Bombardier, Delta has a sweetheart deal with them.
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But not as sweet as a deal that they have with their MD-88s/90s.

Read somewhere Delta is leasing the -88s/90s for about 80,000 a month. That is the same price you pay per month to lease the -700/-900, but half the capacity, hence, half the revenue.
 
Seggy said:
But not as sweet as a deal that they have with their MD-88s/90s.

Read somewhere Delta is leasing the -88s/90s for about 80,000 a month. That is the same price you pay per month to lease the -700/-900, but half the capacity, hence, half the revenue.
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But those 88s/90s are gas guzzlers. Continental has a pretty sweet fleet when it comes to fuel efficiency. Hey Seggy what kind of load factor does the 1900s and Saabs need to break even? Im thinking Colgan should be making nice profits off those turboprops. The ATR needs 30 passengers out of a capacity of 66 to break-even, hence their nickname is "The Moneymaker"
 
True, no idea what the seat cost per mile is and all that stuff. It just sickens me though to see all this outsources flying. Hopefully, the lease rates on the -88s/-90s are incentive enough to keep it mainline flying and not outsourcing it.

We need three on the Beech and four on the Saab to break even from what I have been told.
 
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