What would you CFI's like to get paid???

[Crockrocket94]

Like people have said before there are Pro's and Con's to just about any aspect of aviation. The same holds true regarding 141 style training/instructing vs 61 style training instructing.

JRH, you're pretty right on when it comes to the whole mentality of the 141 "push to get done" idea. I do instruct in the 141 environment. It makes it very very easy on me since the syllabus is there in black and white.

However, I am a realist and know that everyone learns differently. I would kill myself if I did the same same SAME stuff everyday, no excitement. I try to reinforce the fun in flying all the time. I might be slightly different than some instructors here at the school because I feel I am very personable, ask any of my students and we always have a pretty good time. Although we still focus and concentrate our efforts to fulfilling the syllabus, but we do it in a variety of ways. I love flying to different airports and the one thing I do really miss about 61 flying, is the Grass Strips. I loved flying into 7N4... (Honey Acres) out in Michigan. I would love to set some of my students down onto some of the nice grass strips around, get out of the airplane and let them fly around the grass.

The downsides to the 141 world basically boils down to the fact that I am a piece in their huge puzzle. Unfortunatly I have to answer to higher authority on anything that resembles "anything outside the box".

On the plus, the 141 makes it pretty easy on the CFI, regarding what to teach and all that.

Different Strokes for Different Folks.

Know of any good part 61 gigs in VA? I am looking

 

[Blackhawk]

well, i'm sort of an enigma at my airport..the guy who instructed back 10-15 years and then left to go fly part 135. in the mid-90's we were making $15 per hour for basic/$17 per hour for instrument/multi. we worked 7 days a week in order to hit close to 20-25k per year. you lived at the airport practically.

part 135 i worked at four different companies flying freight, charter and int'l air ambo. first year i was mostly flying mu-2's and twin turbine beech 18's and 20-series lears. first year as an sic i made $25k. after a year i was upgraded pretty quickly, had been top in my class, based primarily on effort, drive and determination. after seven year, my last year doing it i made $105k, but was gone on the road 1-2 weeks straight at a time. i was almost never home and got burned out. small companies try to cut corners, so i got tired of having to figure out for every flight what i could live without being operational. i got paid a paltry $5 an hour extra for giving flight training and sic rides to new hires ($5???). actually, i had reached the point where i enjoyed giving training more than leaving the country and having to deal with all the customs hassles, etc.

i quit, moved back to arkansas after having worked out of detroit, el paso and tampa bay. once i'd moved, our chief pilot quit and they offered me the job. if they'd offered it when i left i may have stayed put. when i was hired, i was the 7th captain on the payroll, but by the time i left i was the last one. others had either been fired or had gotten tired of poor maintenance. i spent more time on the phone with the director of maintenance than i did with my gf..lol.

so, i quit flying a cpl year entirely and then decided to return to just do basic flight instruction a year ago. i had to pull out all my basic pilot manuals and studied every day for a few weeks, went for a flight review and started back to work the next day. you'd be amazed what you forget knowledge-wise in a few years away from flying at all. the flying was like an old shoe, but i've had to work to get close to where i was knowing regs by heart before i quit. i still study the aim, etc. several nights a week before i go to sleep.

i free-lance. i mostly use referrals through the same old flight school i'd worked 10-15 years ago. now, through my efforts, (demands..lol) we charge $35/hr for instruction, and i keep $30. $50 per hour pilot services. if i find my own, i charge $40 per hour. i don't work probably nearly as many hours as some of you,and admittedly i quit logging religiously..haven't touched my logbook since april and am dreading having to catch it up. yep, i'm an enigma..all the young guys want to know why i'd quit what i was doing to come back to make $25-30k a year. simple, like jrh indicated, i basically traded income for quality of life. i have zero benefits (this does concern me..i'm about to turn 42), get 10-99'd as a contract pilot, but i control my schedule - if i don't feel like flying (like today) i don't. i don't exactly live 'high on the hog', but i've adjusted my lifestyle. in hindsight, i probably would have gone part 121 instead, avoided burnout and have a decent career. now i just don't feel like returning to part 135 or 121 and turn down part 91 corporate offers from time to time.

hey, somebody's gotta teach all these folks trying to get to the airlines..we're in great demand. i could easily work 7 days per week, based on demand, some on good reputation..but aviation takes a lot out of me. it's a labor of love. the nice thing about training folks when i was part 135 was that my trainees were motivated. back in general aviation, as we all know, you basically work for the student..you can't make them study..but you can withhold that 8710 sign-off. the pen truly is mightier than the sword..

Your story sounds like mine. Former military instructor; flew 135 for a while; then flew 121 regional as an ATR CPT, then a CRJ CPT. Gave it up to go back to instructing so I could spend more time with my family after coming back from my forced vacation in Southeast Asia. I enjoyed airline life, just didn't feel like commuting any more.
I now fly when I want. I've been offered local 135 and 91 positions, but I tell the people I don't do overnights and I have to be off by 15:00 to pick up my kids from school.
I work harder in some ways- it's tough keeping ahead of the students. I charge $40-$50 an hour for flight and ground, and I have a waiting list. I only fly two students a day, four days a week.
BTW, who did you work for in ELP?

 

[exleardriver]

Your story sounds like mine. Former military instructor; flew 135 for a while; then flew 121 regional as an ATR CPT, then a CRJ CPT. Gave it up to go back to instructing so I could spend more time with my family after coming back from my forced vacation in Southeast Asia. I enjoyed airline life, just didn't feel like commuting any more.
I now fly when I want. I've been offered local 135 and 91 positions, but I tell the people I don't do overnights and I have to be off by 15:00 to pick up my kids from school.
I work harder in some ways- it's tough keeping ahead of the students. I charge $40-$50 an hour for flight and ground, and I have a waiting list. I only fly two students a day, four days a week.
BTW, who did you work for in ELP?

hi blackhawk,
i guess i envy you..having a family to come home to..i'm going through a sad divorce as we speak (typing with helpofevan williams as i speak). i flew for kalitta and then for kitty hawk after they bought us out. part 135 out of el paso...all freight flying mostly 20-series lears. i work now to avoid being alone at home i guess. i did have a student pass a private checkride today, happy forhim. i have twomore guys going for same in tthe next 10 days. kust having a rough time falling asleep tonight. you know any part 135 operators in kelp? do you know an oldbuddy of mine who has a mintenance shop there? his name is glenn. helluva nice giuy andi owehim a phone call..it's been too long since we spoke.

 

[woog315]

hi blackhawk,
i guess i envy you..having a family to come home to..i'm going through a sad divorce as we speak (typing with helpofevan williams as i speak). i flew for kalitta and then for kitty hawk after they bought us out. part 135 out of el paso...all freight flying mostly 20-series lears. i work now to avoid being alone at home i guess. i did have a student pass a private checkride today, happy forhim. i have twomore guys going for same in tthe next 10 days. kust having a rough time falling asleep tonight. you know any part 135 operators in kelp? do you know an oldbuddy of mine who has a mintenance shop there? his name is glenn. helluva nice giuy andi owehim a phone call..it's been too long since we spoke.

thats the most polite drunkpost ive ever seen on the internet... and from a fellow arkansan

 

[exleardriver]

thats the most polite drunkpost ive ever seen on the internet... and from a fellow arkansan

haha! :yeahthat: and i do promise that i won'tbeflying forway more than8 hours or until bettter than 0.04% blood alcohol..nothing scheduled for tomorrow.

maybe some ground later in the day..

where are you woog? ever have a really bad night....? :bandit: unfortunately i don't have an emoticon holding a shot glass filled with a single-barrel bourbon.

 

[Blackhawk]

hi blackhawk,
i guess i envy you..having a family to come home to..i'm going through a sad divorce as we speak (typing with helpofevan williams as i speak). i flew for kalitta and then for kitty hawk after they bought us out. part 135 out of el paso...all freight flying mostly 20-series lears. i work now to avoid being alone at home i guess. i did have a student pass a private checkride today, happy forhim. i have twomore guys going for same in tthe next 10 days. kust having a rough time falling asleep tonight. you know any part 135 operators in kelp? do you know an oldbuddy of mine who has a mintenance shop there? his name is glenn. helluva nice giuy andi owehim a phone call..it's been too long since we spoke.

I don't know Glenn... but he is probably here somewhere. Where did he work? I may have met him. On the maintenance side I know most of the wrench turners at Julies; Dean Moon; Jerry; Bob Kern over at 5T6 along with Danny. Most all of them here are good guys.
The only Lear operator I can think of is ATI. I know most of the guys/girls over there. Good people. They keep asking me to fly for them... but I'm too busy.
Divorce... God, that has to suck. Not that I haven't been close a few times.

 

[exleardriver]

I don't know Glenn... but he is probably here somewhere. Where did he work? I may have met him. On the maintenance side I know most of the wrench turners at Julies; Dean Moon; Jerry; Bob Kern over at 5T6 along with Danny. Most all of them here are good guys.
The only Lear operator I can think of is ATI. I know most of the guys/girls over there. Good people. They keep asking me to fly for them... but I'm too busy.
Divorce... God, that has to suck. Not that I haven't been close a few times.

hi blackhawk,
i believe his company is called 'advanced aircraft'..he was working on pistons and maybe some turbines; no lears. i just got to know him and his family when i lived there. there was another man i knew, but can't recall his name, but he was an 'old' flight instructor..must be in his 70's. nice fella..drove an old truck and dug out in the desert looking for stuff for a hobby. also, i flew lears with a guy named jerry who was in his 60's at the time (he died after i left, augering a lear into the mountains about 50 miles east of el paso. and also worked with danny..ibanez i think..not sure where he is today. this has been a while back '98-'99.

 

[jrh]

Know of any good part 61 gigs in VA? I am looking

The flying club I used to work for near Reading, PA needs a CFI. It's on a private grass strip flying a beat up Cessna 150. Pay is $15/hour. The club members don't fly enough to make it worth working there as a full time job, but if you got a job at Kutztown (N31), Reading (KRDG), or even Allentown (KABE), and taught part time for the club, it's a really fun place. Good grass strip and good people. You could count on flying 10-20 hours/month there.

Also, the school at Kutztown is your typical mom-n-pop small town part 61 flight school. Nice little airport, nice fleet of old but good Cessnas for rent. They've got two or three 150s, a 182, and a J-3 cub I think. Also have an active glider school, so there are opportunities to work as a tow pilot.

Reading and Allentown are the more modern, bigger, busier types of flight schools and offer both 61/141 training I believe. You could make a full time job out of either place pretty easily.

PM me if you're seriously interested in any of the above.