What would you CFI's like to get paid???
- Thread starter Fly4Fun
- Start date
jrh
Well-Known Member
I'd like to see $25-$30/hour with health insurance, some paid time off, and a few hours of free aircraft use every few months in order to stay current on things like instrument flying or night takeoffs and landings. Also, having a flexible schedule is important. I don't mind teaching at odd hours of the day or night, as long as I'm not expected to teach 24/7. If a manager said, "I want you to be available for at least 8 hours/day, 5 days/week, but I don't care when that is, you can work it out with your students," I'd be totally fine with that.
Is this realistic? I dunno, but that's what I'd like to see.
As for flying 100 hours/month...to me, I don't care if I'm flying 20 hours/month or 100 hours/month, I still want to get paid a decent hourly rate with decent benefits.
Of course, this is all coming from the perspective of somebody who doesn't care about hours any more. I'm not a timebuilder. I just want to have decent pay, decent QOL, and enjoy going in to work every day.
Is this realistic? I dunno, but that's what I'd like to see.
As for flying 100 hours/month...to me, I don't care if I'm flying 20 hours/month or 100 hours/month, I still want to get paid a decent hourly rate with decent benefits.
Of course, this is all coming from the perspective of somebody who doesn't care about hours any more. I'm not a timebuilder. I just want to have decent pay, decent QOL, and enjoy going in to work every day.
Cessnaflyer
Wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
I like what I get at where I am now I just hope our pay raise is up to $20 for our new contract in a few months. It's nice to work for the state because I get full benefits and all holidays off and since it is a traveling college (people have to drive up to 70 miles here to go to school everyday) it is monday through thursday! We are able to use the airplanes to keep up with our currency which really helps for the months you are in a pinch with money and time.
bdhill1979
Gone West
Minimum $20 per hour. I wouldn't take any less, though we start guys out at $12 for the first 60 days just to weed out the idiots. Some guys bitch about it pretty hard, but I think for our market it is pretty smart and reasonable. We get a pretty solid discount on aircraft and a healthy amount of free multi time if you stick around long enough too.
surreal1221
Well-Known Member
I'd request a salary that would yield a 30k a year guarantee. . .not too much, not too little. . .but that'd be my base pay. I would also like a $10 an hour per flight hour increase. I think 30k a year is the least that should be acceptable for a profession that requires a 20-50k initial investment.
So, that would mean $1250 every two weeks. . .and if I've flown 45 hours during those two weeks, I'd also expect a $450 increase. That way, I'm still making good money for my time sitting at the airport while not in an airplane. I know I know. . .asking too much right?
Nice to see you on the forum too buddy.
I'll keep your identity a secret . . . for now. 
So, that would mean $1250 every two weeks. . .and if I've flown 45 hours during those two weeks, I'd also expect a $450 increase. That way, I'm still making good money for my time sitting at the airport while not in an airplane. I know I know. . .asking too much right?
Nice to see you on the forum too buddy.
I'll keep your identity a secret . . . for now. 
dc3flyer
Well-Known Member
I think if a flight school expects you to be at the airport for a certain amount of time wether you are flying or not, you should be getting paid for that time. Be it a reduced hourly rate, or a set salary.
When I was an instructor, I taught at a Part 61 school and my boss didn't "require" me to be at the airport. I was more of a contract instructor, although I got most of my business through his school, so I hung out quite a bit there hoping to get more students. In return, he got $5 an hour, and I got $20. If I brought in my own student, I also paid him the $5 IF we used his plane... if I flew in a student's plane, or someone elses, the entire $30 went to me. (I charged more for their plane.)
All that said, if I were "asked" to be at the airport for x hours a day I would have expected at least $10 an hour to waste my time sitting there. Being Part 61, I didn't have a bunch of paperwork like Part 141 instructors. I think those guys should get paid for that as well.
When I was an instructor, I taught at a Part 61 school and my boss didn't "require" me to be at the airport. I was more of a contract instructor, although I got most of my business through his school, so I hung out quite a bit there hoping to get more students. In return, he got $5 an hour, and I got $20. If I brought in my own student, I also paid him the $5 IF we used his plane... if I flew in a student's plane, or someone elses, the entire $30 went to me. (I charged more for their plane.)
All that said, if I were "asked" to be at the airport for x hours a day I would have expected at least $10 an hour to waste my time sitting there. Being Part 61, I didn't have a bunch of paperwork like Part 141 instructors. I think those guys should get paid for that as well.
aerospacepilot
New Member
I have never paid a CFI less than $35/hr. And no, that is not the rate I pay the flight school... that is the rate that comes out of my checkbook and into the instructors pocket!
I cannot believe people would take instructing jobs for something like $15/hr. That is ridiculous. Or those guys at ATP working their butts off for only $1200/month. I would agree that $30,000 a year is a reasonable starting wage for a brand new CFI. Something like $30/hr will get you there.
I cannot believe people would take instructing jobs for something like $15/hr. That is ridiculous. Or those guys at ATP working their butts off for only $1200/month. I would agree that $30,000 a year is a reasonable starting wage for a brand new CFI. Something like $30/hr will get you there.
Great insight guys! I think ya'll are on to something with the pay guarantee! I think these guys who dont get paid for doing 141 folders are getting jipped! What about East coast vs. West coast pay? Cost of living on the east coast is for sure cheaper than the west! Is thats the reason for the higher pay............?
What about contracts? Are you willing to sign a contract for 18 months and get paid $30 an hour provided you met the company requirements? Plus have health insurance and incentive programs and a 70 hours/month minimum guarantee, but the ability and student load to fly up to 120hours/month? Would that entice anyone to stick around for a while?
dc3flyer
Well-Known Member
I don't think so.... I don't like the whole sign a contract thing. If you paid me a $25,000 signing bonus in addition to the salary, then we can talk about signing a contract.
jrh
Well-Known Member
I'd have to be pretty darn sure I would love the job in order to sign an 18 month contract, no matter how much you paid me.
What happens if I can't stand living in the location of the school? What if I can't stand you as a manager? There are a million "what ifs" that I couldn't know until I work the job for a while.
In the airline world, contracts are fairly acceptable just because it takes a large investment to train an airline pilot.
In the CFI world, *short* contracts are acceptable because the school doesn't want to screw over students by having to constantly switch instructors.
But I don't see any reason why a CFI contract needs to be longer than 6-8 months. You can get plenty of students through training, start to finish, in 6-8 months. 18 months seems excessive.
What happens if I can't stand living in the location of the school? What if I can't stand you as a manager? There are a million "what ifs" that I couldn't know until I work the job for a while.
In the airline world, contracts are fairly acceptable just because it takes a large investment to train an airline pilot.
In the CFI world, *short* contracts are acceptable because the school doesn't want to screw over students by having to constantly switch instructors.
But I don't see any reason why a CFI contract needs to be longer than 6-8 months. You can get plenty of students through training, start to finish, in 6-8 months. 18 months seems excessive.
turbomax97
What can brown do for you?
I don't agree with the dogging on ATP thing there lol. It USED to be that way, realize this. The base retainer WAS $1200 + Bonuses, which would net around $17 - 2000 on average per month. With the current scale, it's $1600 + Bonuses, I've been averaging anywhere from 2000 - 2500, depending on how much i worked.
With the new scale, and a busy month, you can expect to earn arond $3000 per month. And yeah, I'm still considering getting my ATP before moving on.
mhcasey
Well-Known Member
This is a tough question. I've only been instructing since Aug 2. At my first job I made $15/flight hour. I always wanted to charge per scheduled hour (we always scheduled two hour blocks, of which I probably averaged flying about 1.2 hours), but none of the other instructors would do it. The manager said we could do whatever we wanted, but I wasn't in a rush to have rumors circulating about "ripping my students off" thanks to my fellow instructors ripping themselves off.
Despite the terrible wages, the school did have a lot of students to offer, full time and fully qualified mx, full insurance coverage ($1,000,000 liability I think, even for student-owned aircraft), plenty of airplanes, a decent amount of instrument/commercial students, and a decent chance for multi time if you were willing to stick around long enough for the more senior instructors to head to regionals.
I'm not convinced these benefits justified the $22 cut the school took from the CFI pay, but from a business standpoint I can see how they would not have a heck of a lot of incentive to offer more. Most of the instructors stuck around less than 6 months before leaving for the regionals, and most are so time-desperate that they're willing to live like slaves while working their way to that prestigious regional FO position.
Also, most of the schools in the area charged $35/hr for instructors and a few got away with similar (though not as low) wages paid to the instructors, so they were generally in line with the local market. My school also paid $18/hr for instrument/commercial and $22/hr for multi/cfi students (they still took a $22 cut) and offered a few not so appealing incentives: $200/month base pay if you're full time (Not that it was this bad every month, but I remember my first month sitting around the school from at least 9-6 everyday thinking about how I was making like 3 bucks an hour when I wasn't flying) and some sort of bonuses for the poor bastards that wanted to stick around the flight school all day everyday and could knock out 100 hours of flight instruction in a month.
Now I'm making $35/scheduled hour freelancing (though if I leave the airport early with the student I don't charge them for that time). Mx is not as good, fewer airplanes, no insurance (I'm still trying to decide if I should take out that separate liability policy on myself, though I think my net worth is like 5K so I'm not sure what anyone would be getting from me), and slower student flow, but I'll tell ya I feel a hell of a lot better about myself knowing I'm being paid at least closer to what I deserve for the responsibilities that come with flight instructing. I also manage my own schedule and don't deal with a manager.
Honestly, I'd charge $50/hr if the other freelancers in the area weren't charging $35. I remember my first instructor charged $45, all of which he pocketed, and at the time I gave absolutely no consideration to any notions of him profiteering. The guy was good and saved my life on a number of occasions. Hell, I'd pay $45/hr plus contribute a steady supply of much needed end-of-the-day Shiner Bock for those services.
Despite the terrible wages, the school did have a lot of students to offer, full time and fully qualified mx, full insurance coverage ($1,000,000 liability I think, even for student-owned aircraft), plenty of airplanes, a decent amount of instrument/commercial students, and a decent chance for multi time if you were willing to stick around long enough for the more senior instructors to head to regionals.
I'm not convinced these benefits justified the $22 cut the school took from the CFI pay, but from a business standpoint I can see how they would not have a heck of a lot of incentive to offer more. Most of the instructors stuck around less than 6 months before leaving for the regionals, and most are so time-desperate that they're willing to live like slaves while working their way to that prestigious regional FO position.
Also, most of the schools in the area charged $35/hr for instructors and a few got away with similar (though not as low) wages paid to the instructors, so they were generally in line with the local market. My school also paid $18/hr for instrument/commercial and $22/hr for multi/cfi students (they still took a $22 cut) and offered a few not so appealing incentives: $200/month base pay if you're full time (Not that it was this bad every month, but I remember my first month sitting around the school from at least 9-6 everyday thinking about how I was making like 3 bucks an hour when I wasn't flying) and some sort of bonuses for the poor bastards that wanted to stick around the flight school all day everyday and could knock out 100 hours of flight instruction in a month.
Now I'm making $35/scheduled hour freelancing (though if I leave the airport early with the student I don't charge them for that time). Mx is not as good, fewer airplanes, no insurance (I'm still trying to decide if I should take out that separate liability policy on myself, though I think my net worth is like 5K so I'm not sure what anyone would be getting from me), and slower student flow, but I'll tell ya I feel a hell of a lot better about myself knowing I'm being paid at least closer to what I deserve for the responsibilities that come with flight instructing. I also manage my own schedule and don't deal with a manager.
Honestly, I'd charge $50/hr if the other freelancers in the area weren't charging $35. I remember my first instructor charged $45, all of which he pocketed, and at the time I gave absolutely no consideration to any notions of him profiteering. The guy was good and saved my life on a number of occasions. Hell, I'd pay $45/hr plus contribute a steady supply of much needed end-of-the-day Shiner Bock for those services.
exleardriver
Well-Known Member
well, i'm sort of an enigma at my airport..the guy who instructed back 10-15 years and then left to go fly part 135. in the mid-90's we were making $15 per hour for basic/$17 per hour for instrument/multi. we worked 7 days a week in order to hit close to 20-25k per year. you lived at the airport practically.
part 135 i worked at four different companies flying freight, charter and int'l air ambo. first year i was mostly flying mu-2's and twin turbine beech 18's and 20-series lears. first year as an sic i made $25k. after a year i was upgraded pretty quickly, had been top in my class, based primarily on effort, drive and determination. after seven year, my last year doing it i made $105k, but was gone on the road 1-2 weeks straight at a time. i was almost never home and got burned out. small companies try to cut corners, so i got tired of having to figure out for every flight what i could live without being operational. i got paid a paltry $5 an hour extra for giving flight training and sic rides to new hires ($5???). actually, i had reached the point where i enjoyed giving training more than leaving the country and having to deal with all the customs hassles, etc.
i quit, moved back to arkansas after having worked out of detroit, el paso and tampa bay. once i'd moved, our chief pilot quit and they offered me the job. if they'd offered it when i left i may have stayed put. when i was hired, i was the 7th captain on the payroll, but by the time i left i was the last one. others had either been fired or had gotten tired of poor maintenance. i spent more time on the phone with the director of maintenance than i did with my gf..lol.
so, i quit flying a cpl year entirely and then decided to return to just do basic flight instruction a year ago. i had to pull out all my basic pilot manuals and studied every day for a few weeks, went for a flight review and started back to work the next day. you'd be amazed what you forget knowledge-wise in a few years away from flying at all. the flying was like an old shoe, but i've had to work to get close to where i was knowing regs by heart before i quit. i still study the aim, etc. several nights a week before i go to sleep.
i free-lance. i mostly use referrals through the same old flight school i'd worked 10-15 years ago. now, through my efforts, (demands..lol) we charge $35/hr for instruction, and i keep $30. $50 per hour pilot services. if i find my own, i charge $40 per hour. i don't work probably nearly as many hours as some of you,and admittedly i quit logging religiously..haven't touched my logbook since april and am dreading having to catch it up. yep, i'm an enigma..all the young guys want to know why i'd quit what i was doing to come back to make $25-30k a year. simple, like jrh indicated, i basically traded income for quality of life. i have zero benefits (this does concern me..i'm about to turn 42), get 10-99'd as a contract pilot, but i control my schedule - if i don't feel like flying (like today) i don't. i don't exactly live 'high on the hog', but i've adjusted my lifestyle. in hindsight, i probably would have gone part 121 instead, avoided burnout and have a decent career. now i just don't feel like returning to part 135 or 121 and turn down part 91 corporate offers from time to time.
hey, somebody's gotta teach all these folks trying to get to the airlines..we're in great demand. i could easily work 7 days per week, based on demand, some on good reputation..but aviation takes a lot out of me. it's a labor of love. the nice thing about training folks when i was part 135 was that my trainees were motivated. back in general aviation, as we all know, you basically work for the student..you can't make them study..but you can withhold that 8710 sign-off. the pen truly is mightier than the sword..
Douglas
Old School KSUX
as a base I would like at least 2/3rds of what the company charges for my hour.
I am not even getting half right now at just under $20 bucks.
I could see them taking the money they charge for my dual given, if and only if they paid or in some way helped me get to where I am now...which they didn't.
I am not even getting half right now at just under $20 bucks.
I could see them taking the money they charge for my dual given, if and only if they paid or in some way helped me get to where I am now...which they didn't.